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Countries vote against the USA at the United Nations and receive USA AID

pitzerwm

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China is raping and pillaging Africa just like Europe did 200 years ago. They logged off every tree in Madagascar, the only reason that they are building roads is to move the resources to the coast. The dictators will get the bulk of the money, just like it has happened for the last 200 years. Our aid is just to try and get them to like us, we aren't smart enough to get anything in return.
 

bigleo48

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China has also built government, buildings, hospitals, roads/hwy's, residential developments...etc But China is doing this to suit their own self interest.

Our countries may not have gotten much in return, but our companies do. For example Nigeria's oil fields. Environmentally is a huge disaster, caused by our own Big Oil Companies. The people of that region and the greater good of the country has not been served...on the contrary, it has been been "raped and pillaged by Western Big Oil." Big Oil has made out like a bandit!

I am not so naive to be sympathetic to the Chinese, but I'm also not so naive as to think that we are wearing the white hats here. The colonial countries and more recently the West and now China & Russia have done great damage as Bill has pointed out. So when we say "lets stop helping" as its a waste of money, we are not considering the longer term financial and other implications of this decision.

Back to the original point, those are statistics that were put out there as a lightning rod. They are numbers that are not flushed out and don't explain why its not working. The one trend I see in politics today, is that people believe these issues are very simple to resolve...they are anything but and would have been resolved a lot time ago if they were. Just like grass roots political parties, they promise a simpler, truer government, but they can never achieve it because no mater the stripes, these people walk into the same straitjacket that funnels them right down the same road. So the only real changes that can take place are small and the bigger issues can only be nudged towards a specific direction. That's politics and diplomacy.
 

JMMUSTANG

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Change starts with knowledge.
Just look at the response that has been acknowledge.
Without these figures we would not be having this discussion at all.
I doubt very seriously that any of us knew these figures or thought about what you have said about China and Africa.
By the way have you ever had any dealings with the Chinese governmet?
 

bigleo48

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JM,

Although I did not know the exact numbers, those figures did not surprise me at all (except perhaps for India).

It seems you posted these numbers (without a link to its source I might add) for Republican political gain. Hence the 'lightning rod' label I gave it as its just before an election. So I don't really buy the 'knowledge is a wonderful thing' Not being american, I can't vote, yet what happens south of our borders very much affects us and more or less, the world. So I take an interest. What I know comes from what I read and I always take its source into consideration.

"By the way have you ever had any dealings with the Chinese governmet?" ?!?!

I grew up in the capital and the Chinese and Russian embassies were just down the road. I always looked at them, their high fence and security with some fascination as it was the cold war. My father being an RCMP added a 'particular' view of them. Now that the world has changed, we get to talk to people on the 'other side' and it is fascinating. I once hosted a Russian (Belarussian) Doctor for 6 weeks who is about the same age. It was interesting to hear her stories on growing up on the other side. A close relative married a Chinese national while working there for 5 years. Its also interesting talking to her. Raised in two cultures and having traveled a fair bit has also thought me much. Remember there are always two sides to the story and one side is never 100% right or wrong.
 
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