D&S 5000 out of sync.

[Dan-Ark]

My 5000 is not turning on the power blasters when it goes down the front (washing the grill of the car). and the side spinners and power blast are coming on 2/3 of the way back rather than as it transitions to the downward slope. Its as if it wants to be homed close to the entrance of the wash as opposed to by the front door of the car. re setting home does not seem to change this. although it will stop and start from where I set home. It does move home forward a few inches over a month or two.
Any Ideas??

 

[washnshine]

Dan,

What normally activates and deactivates the power blast - is it a mechanical switch at both ends of the tracks as the machine reaches the slope and tilts, or is it some type of sensor or prox switch?

 

[JGinther]

Your homing issue is due to a count prox issue. Hopefully its not due to bearing slop/wear. The counting prox is also what dictates when to start moving slow, and when to turn on the power blasters, so its likely tied to all of your issues. Make sure the distance is staying the same when the ganry is horizontal on the rail vs vertical. It should be about a credit card distance away from the metal of the counting wheel, depending on your model and sensor type. If it misses counts, it will act confused as you describe.

 

[Dan-Ark]

It has a pulse counter (prox switch counting rotations of the driving shaft). the ends of travel are by prox switch at each end. It seems to me that powering it down completely at home, should reset the count of the position counting swith, its like it wants to start further back, but that makes it pass over the center of the car too many times. (I ran it that way the first few months.

 

[Dan-Ark]

Your homing issue is due to a count prox issue. Hopefully its not due to bearing slop/wear. The counting prox is also what dictates when to start moving slow, and when to turn on the power blasters, so its likely tied to all of your issues. Make sure the distance is staying the same when the ganry is horizontal on the rail vs vertical. It should be about a credit card distance away from the metal of the counting wheel, depending on your model and sensor type. If it misses counts, it will act confused as you describe.

Thanks, I suspected it has something to do with that, to do what it is doing, it seems it would have to loose count traveling in the forward direction only as power blaster is coming one way to early toward the rear. I'll check the clearance. there is a slight bend in the drive shaft due to some brilliant customer running into the gantry but its been like that for quite a while. Shouldn't re-setting home have some effect on where it turns powerblast on or off? Until yesterday I have not rehomed the machine for several weeks.

 

[JGinther]

The switch to change from auto mode to manual mode has a 3rd position (down). When you have the machine where its supposed to be 'home' (by the car's front door), push that switch all the way down. That should home the machine to that position. The machine will also adjust according to when it sees the rail travel limits, but should end right in the same place every time... Unless you have a count prox problem, or bearing/wheel problem.

 

[Dan-Ark]

I use that as well as turn off the breaker to the PLC and the machine always homes. It will move home forward 6" or so over 2 or 3 months or so. If it looses count and goes to the prox limit, when it reverses its almost like it thinks it is reversing from home rather than the forward limit. so maybe it is not counting the forward motion... except it is moving forward when it stops at home position at the end... I'll play with it some more.. thanks again.

 

[MEP001]

It's definitely missing some pulses from the count prox as JGinther said.

 

[Dan-Ark]

adjusted prox switch on pulse wheel, it was a little off center but very close. No difference. then I re-homed the machine at the weld mark on the other rail closer to the entrance of the wash. rand from there and the blasters came on when they were supposed to. lf it is in fact correct to have the wash home closer to the exit than enterance as I have been under the impression, than could it be the wash is set up backward? in other words does it think the cars are coming in from the exit side? It has no way of knowing where the in position treadle is.
In short my top wash starts by moving toward the exit, then back to the entrance, etc, Is this correct? If it should start just ahead of the drivers door and move down the hood before passing over the whole car back toward the entrance, do I need to reverse by hydraulic lines and electric eyes? I'm thinking this would allow the wash to start at the (assumed) correct place, but it would move the opposite direction for each pass....

 

[MEP001]

If the wash is set up backwards, it will always switch to all top oscillators way too early in the back and won't turn them on in the front at all or until it's almost all the way down. If it's good when you first reset it and drifts off, the counter prox is missing pulses. Did you check the distance between the prox and the cog? It should be about two business cards thickness away.

If you think it's set up backwards, just swap the wires to the direction solenoids.

 

[JGinther]

If something is set up backward, the gantry would jam at the end of the rail because of the limit sensors not stopping the machine from continuing. If the machine is moving positions, its that you are missing counts (as mentioned several times already). In manual mode, if you cover the EXIT eye, the machine should travel to the ENTRANCE side of the bay; and vice versa for the other eye. To reverse it from working order forward to working order backward, you would have to swap the hydraulics, the photo eyes, and the limit switches. Someone would have to have been working really late on Friday to have done all of that. Or its possible that they wanted to change the direction of traffic flow and just changed the location of the treadle, undercarriage hoses, and dryer? None of it makes sense to me. Maybe you just need to look into changing the count sensor or see if there's axle slop. If the machine is stopping at the wrong places, but continuing to wash, you could have a limit sensor flaking out.

 

[MEP001]

If something is set up backward, the gantry would jam at the end of the rail because of the limit sensors not stopping the machine from continuing.

You're right, he would need to swap the inputs from the limit sensors too.

Maybe you just need to look into changing the count sensor or see if there's axle slop.

The best way I've found to do this is to set the machine down on the springs or on a couple of plastic drums, lift the drop arms so the gantry is level, then unhook the springs. That will take enough weight off the driveshaft that you can pry on it to check for a large amount of play.

 

[Dan-Ark]

It stops on the limit fine and has not jammed against the springs. When I homed it at the weld mark on the rail closest to the enterance, it turns the blasters on while travelling vertically, and off while travelling across the top of the rail. I left it there so it would wash better. When in manual, If i cover the eye closest the exit it moves toward the entrance and visa versa, as its supposed to. It holds home pretty well, creeping forward (toward the exit) maybe 5 inches in a couple of months of running. If I home it at the weld mark on the rail that it closest the exit, it never turns on the blasters in the front and turns them on (and side spinners off) about 6 or 8 feet before it drops down the vertical at the rear of the car (entrance of wash). Is there any issue with just letting it start from the mark closest the entrance of the wash? Does it overlap more and wast water and chemical? We swapped Gantries a year or so ago, maybe we got something wrong when we put it in. I thought we had it running right then. I did have to replace the umbilical cord and completely rewired it sometime later. I followed the schematic in the manual (least I think I did). Seems I would have noticed the blasters not coming on right before. lt was obvious last weekend. These senior moments are starting to get too frequent!

 

[JGinther]

I think it would have caused you enough confusion when you installed the replacement gantry that you would remember having to switch stuff around to get it working. If you compare the input on the plc for photo eyes to the actual physical location on the gantry (front photo eye to see if its actually wired to the front photo eye; front end limit too) are correct, then the machine would be wired and plumbed right. Does the gantry slow down at the arch turns and during vertical travel? That is the other item that is set by count only (if its working). I'm pretty sure its an adjustable number in the program actually.

 

[Dan-Ark]

As I recall, the only issue we had when we installed the replacement gantry, is when I covered one of the the eyes the first time, it went the wrong way. and as I recall, I switched the wiring on the eyes. I'm now thinking I should have switched the hydraulic lines instead... It does slow down as it brakes over the arch, at least now that it is starting from the wrong end... Thanks for all the input. I think I need to switch both the eye wiring and the hoses on the hydraulic drive motor. But im thinking it will still travel the same distance in each cycle as it does not, it will just start nearer teh front of the car. Is there a specific reason they designate that starting point??

 

[MEP001]

Is there a specific reason they designate that starting point??

It gives the front an extra half-pass of presoak.

The way it is now, does it slow down and switch to power blast just as it finishes coming off the curve in about the same place front and back?

 

[JGinther]

As I recall, the only issue we had when we installed the replacement gantry, is when I covered one of the the eyes the first time, it went the wrong way. and as I recall, I switched the wiring on the eyes.

I think you must have switched the wiring on the limits too then. Otherwise the machine would have faceplanted on the springs and not moved until you switched something. Funny, shows just how simple a 5000 is. You can have 3 things backward and the machine still works!

 

[Dan-Ark]

It gives the front an extra half-pass of presoak.

The way it is now, does it slow down and switch to power blast just as it finishes coming off the curve in about the same place front and back?

Yes pretty close to the same on both ends now.