Data Logger vs. PLC vs. Relay

[Bubbles Galore]

I started a thread about self serve automation a while back. I want to know the simplest route for me to monitor my bays remotely. I want to be able to monitor my product usage, time spent in bays, busiest bays, etc...

If it makes more sense to use a PLC or a Relay, I want to hear that too. I would like to look at all my options and get started on this going into the winter.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

That is exactly what I want to do. If you don't want to go over it here please PM me with some details. Do you have to have a computer onsite? Can you check your system(s) remotely? Do you have one PLC per bay? How do you interface between the PLC and Excel?

Thanks!

 

[ONEcard]

Look at PLC's.. Yes off-site access is reasonable todo. No you don't have to have a computer on site. One controller can do everything.............................................................................................................

 

[mjwalsh]

Look at PLC's.. Yes off-site access is reasonable todo. No you don't have to have a computer on site. One controller can do everything....

ONEcard & Bubbles,

It seems like some type of internet access would be needed via some type of wire service or wireless(cell phone) etc though. ONEcard, Can you clarify on what seems to be working out the best to communicate with the TCP/IP data tags or data fields?

 

[Rudy]

I "watch" my wash using a data logger program running on the same PC that operates my Credit Card system. I access it using a program called PCAnywhere using dial-up. When I want to see what's going on at the wash, my home computer essentially becomes a repeater of the desktop of the car wash's computer.

 

[mjwalsh]

I "watch" my wash using a data logger program running on the same PC that operates my Credit Card system. I access it using a program called PCAnywhere using dial-up. When I want to see what's going on at the wash, my home computer essentially becomes a repeater of the desktop of the car wash's computer.

Rudy,

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like you could do the exact same thing with Remote Desktop that comes free within Windows XP Pro?

 

[MEP001]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like you could do the exact same thing with Remote Desktop that comes free within Windows XP Pro?

You can, but you need XP Pro installed on the remote computer. The cost difference between Home and Pro is more than the cost of pcAnywhere.

I use TightVNC, which is freeware.

 

[Jeff_L]

I use RealVNC for this. You only need a server license on the computer you want to remote into, which is $30 each. The viewer you use to remote into the server is free. They have a 30 day trial which I used prior to making the purchase.

 

[ONEcard]

You can use a modem but its slow to slow for most of us. Takes about 3-5 minutes to populate 3,000 data points. If you need to go with a modem use an Industrial automation type,they are easy to configure, 4 times the price,10 times less hassle. On connection utilities I use "REALVNC" as does Jeff its a solid program. Worth paying the 30 clams. The remote desktop program from Microsoft is junk. Don't rely on it. not very secure, not reliable, difficult to configure. If you want a sweet easy to use remote desktop access program I would recommend a product called TEAM VIEWER www.Teamviewer.com. this is a free utility for most folks. Look on the web site and see if you feel you fall under the free / Non-Commercial use. I think you do. whats great about this is it hammer through any firewall and takes 30 seconds to set up. I have customers with NO computer skills at all and they can set it up.
The issue at hand is how to access your data. If you have a computer on site then the remote desktop is great for getting your data. If using a PLC you will need some major VB programming skills to get data out of the PLC or you can use third party software utilities like KEPware, or DATAworx. These are OPC/DDE connection points but they license by the data points you collect or the # of PLCs as well. This can be spendy low end $400.00 for one controller or 100 data points to unlimited which is $1,500.00- $2,000.00. each site needs to have its own license etc. All of this is doable it just gets expensive along th way.

Hope this info helps

Zack

 

[Jeff_L]

Just thought about this over the weekend. To use remote PC applications such as RealVNC, PCAnywhere, etc. across the internet, you'll need some publically known address. This can be achieved multiple ways by paying for a static IP address, or if you don't want to pay the bucks for that (I wouldn't) you can use free websites such as www.dyndns.org to register your dynamic IP with them and you'll get a free address such as computername.podzone.net. Then you can use the application to get to your PC.

 

[JustClean]

I use RealVNC for this. You only need a server license on the computer you want to remote into, which is $30 each. The viewer you use to remote into the server is free. They have a 30 day trial which I used prior to making the purchase.

I use www.logmein.com it's free and you get access from anywhere. You only need a browser. I also use the Geovision camera system that has an in-built counter. This counter is not the greatest but because it comes with this system I just use it and it gives me the data for free.

 

[Jeff_L]

Does logmein allow you to transfer files between host and server computers?

 

[MEP001]

The site says it does...

 

[Bubbles Galore]

So my basic setup would be to have a PLC operating my bays. The PLC would be connected to a PC at the wash that would then have the data dropped into an excel type format that I could access over the net through one of the various programs mentioned. I could also have my DVR set up through my PC at the wash to be able to monitor my cameras.

Sound about right?

 

[MEP001]

You wouldn't necessarily need the PLC to operate the bays. You could use the PLC to read coin pulses or timer or function outputs to tell you what's going on, what functions are being used, etc.

Some DVR cards for PCs have a counter feature which records whatever you input to it. I've seen one by AverMedia (about $100) that does.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I see what you mean, I could just use the PLC as a monitoring system instead of a controller. I would still need roughly 12 inputs per bay to monitor all my functions. That would be around a hundred inputs for all my bays, but I think it would be nice to be able to monitor usage and things of that nature.

Thanks!

MEP: Do you think I could do something like this with the LOGO series since all I want to do is monitor not control?

 

[MEP001]

I don't think so, I haven't gotten that much into the counter abilities, but as far as I can tell it uses the counter only as an activator for itself, which resets once it does its job. The manual is of little help to the layman - almost all of what I've learned I've had to figure out on my own.

Have you checked with Jim at Etowah Valley? I thought his timer had tracking of function use.

 

[Jeff_L]

If you're new to PLCs, like myself, I would recommend using it for monitoring rather than for actual function use. This way if you mess something up, you're not impacting your revenue, just your reporting. Once you are comfortable with it, and if it looks like a better idea than what you're doing today, then roll it into production.

I bought a little TECO to play with. All I'm doing right now is turning on and off the lights in the workshop remotely. That has no value to me, but it's a start!

 

[Bubbles Galore]

As a matter of fact I spoke with Jim this morning. He has quite a few neat little projects in the works right now which include being able to monitor functions and the such. With my current setup I can monitor how many coin pulses go through each of my bays but I can't monitor function use and that is really what I am going for.