Delta Sonic's auto prep

[briteauto]

I visited Delta Sonic's flagship location yesterday and saw something new. After paying at one of the three attended pay booths, the customers in line reach a building with an iba in it. They pull forward into the bay, stop at the red light, and there are two inverted L arms that circle the car in probably less than ten seconds, applying a high pressure detergent. This is before the manual prep prior to the actual tunnel. After that, they continue to pull forward to the manual prep, and then to the tunnel.

The iba equipment was in the style of the oasis machine that has two bridges, with one covering the front and driver side of the vehicle and the other covering the back an passengers side, simultaneously. That is how they cover the car so quickly. I think the machine they were using, however, was custom made by Delta Sonic - they make all their own equipment, except for the blowers, which tend to be Belanger in most of their locations. They have a shop in Buffalo where they make all their arches, mitters and conveyors as well.

Never saw a car wash prepping a car wash before, but they can afford to do that at their volume.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Was at an Illinois location where the driver approaches the tunnel and goes thru a 20 foot structure made of an aluminum skeleton and panals over it.

The structure has jets of solution mounted inside that spray the car which then proceeds to the loading area.

 

[xamboss]

Tom Petit has a new robot that does a great job prepping or by itself as a touchless tunnel. Here is a youtube link of it in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCgRbmhW3k4

 

[TheChemicalGuy1]

To me, that just sounds like way too much prepping. To me, if you have a bug arch (prior to tunnel), and you live in an area where mud,clay, etc road films are not a big deal, then little/no manual prepping should have to be done to the car, and the tunnel chemistry can actually do what it's supposed to. Even if you're just spraying the customer vehicle with a hp prep gun and water, no solution, you are still saturating the car with water, thus making the prep soap more diluted, further inhibiting cleaning.

Just my take.

 

[robert roman]

Touch-less prep systems have been around a long time. So, I would guess that Delta is trying to develop their own system hoping that it will reduce labor cost and/or improve consistency and quality.

I believe Petit Auto Wash, Inc. has a better idea for conveyor applications; use a robotic touch-less system to clean the entire vehicle instead of just prepping it.

If you want to see this concept in action, follow the link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlhiTvDQKMc

The location is Expressway Car Wash in Morgantown, W.V. which is owned by Jason Day. Jason is a client and friend and I helped him get into the carwash business years ago.

Jason rarely prep vehicles and the video clearly shows how well the system works in terms of finish quality.

 

[rph9168]

I think that MacNeil's new prep arch would work in a similar fashion. It uses a horizontal high pressure spray that contours the vehicle.

 

[Washmee]

Touch-less prep systems have been around a long time. So, I would guess that Delta is trying to develop their own system hoping that it will reduce labor cost and/or improve consistency and quality.

I believe Petit Auto Wash, Inc. has a better idea for conveyor applications; use a robotic touch-less system to clean the entire vehicle instead of just prepping it.

If you want to see this concept in action, follow the link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlhiTvDQKMc

The location is Expressway Car Wash in Morgantown, W.V. which is owned by Jason Day. Jason is a client and friend and I helped him get into the carwash business years ago.

Jason rarely prep vehicles and the video clearly shows how well the system works in terms of finish quality.

I have several of the Petit systems in operation near my wash. Several of them have added friction to their equipment packages in order to achieve consistent results.

 

[robert roman]

MacNeil's new prep arch was acquired from Petit.

You can see this arch at http://www.petitautowash.com/

The system used in the Expressway wash is a different design and a true industrial robot; automatically controlled, reprogrammable, multipurpose manipulator which is programmable in three or more axes.

There are also several other as yet unpublished videos of this wash showing the effective removal of bugs from front bumpers and cleaning filthy pick-up trucks, etc.

I'm very impressed with Petit's new robotic carwash system and the quality of the wash it can produce. I also believe Petit has a real winner on his hands.

 

[rph9168]

MacNeil's new prep arch looks more like a Burton arch than the one on Petit's site.

 

[Chiefs]

a $35K Robotic high pressure to automatically prep a car before cloth equipment? Nothing like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. We've been doing that with zero degree nozzles on oscillating spray bars since 1985!

The key to automatic vehicle prepping is having a good pre-soak and high pressure before any cloth equipment. Cloth before the high pressure simply dilutes your pre-soak.

Even with this type of hybrid system, you simply have vehicles that present such difficult wash conditions (mud, bugs, bird crap, etc.), have not been washed in two or three months, and/ or are in such poor condiiton, that manual prepping is still necessary if you are going to be able to deliver a clean, dry shiny car.

If you are adamantly against any manual prepping, you of course can run that way and simply have a no questions asked re-wash policy - because you will have at least 5-10% of vehicles that won't come clean the first time without manula prepping. Of course, putting a vehicle through a second time without any manual prepping may be able to address some of the extra-ordinary conditions, but will only hit the same areas. Without manual prepping, areas like between the windshield wipers and the hood or in around the spare tire on the back of an SUV will still not come clean the second time through.

It all depends on how you want to operate your wash. What you define as an acceptably clean vehicles, and of course your customers and the reputation that you come to develop with them and in your market area. Unfortunately, I tend to try to be a perfectionist, therefor even with a 150' tunnel with touchless at the beginning and two sets of cloth equipment, we still prep fronts, rear and windshields as well as for bugs and birds. We like to deliver a clean, dry, shiny car to customers the first time. Few people like to complain - they usually don't and just don't come back. With a 3-5 mile market area, few businesses can afford a poor reputation. So while not prepping may of course save you time, money and labor, it could also be costing you in the long run if you are always trying to replace dissatisfied customers. Remember, you can do a job right 100 times and often the customers will only remember the one time you fell on your sword.

 

[TheChemicalGuy1]

a $35K Robotic high pressure to automatically prep a car before cloth equipment? Nothing like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. We've been doing that with zero degree nozzles on oscillating spray bars since 1985!

The key to automatic vehicle prepping is having a good pre-soak and high pressure before any cloth equipment. Cloth before the high pressure simply dilutes your pre-soak.

Even with this type of hybrid system, you simply have vehicles that present such difficult wash conditions (mud, bugs, bird crap, etc.), have not been washed in two or three months, and/ or are in such poor condiiton, that manual prepping is still necessary if you are going to be able to deliver a clean, dry shiny car.

If you are adamantly against any manual prepping, you of course can run that way and simply have a no questions asked re-wash policy - because you will have at least 5-10% of vehicles that won't come clean the first time without manula prepping. Of course, putting a vehicle through a second time without any manual prepping may be able to address some of the extra-ordinary conditions, but will only hit the same areas. Without manual prepping, areas like between the windshield wipers and the hood or in around the spare tire on the back of an SUV will still not come clean the second time through.

It all depends on how you want to operate your wash. What you define as an acceptably clean vehicles, and of course your customers and the reputation that you come to develop with them and in your market area. Unfortunately, I tend to try to be a perfectionist, therefor even with a 150' tunnel with touchless at the beginning and two sets of cloth equipment, we still prep fronts, rear and windshields as well as for bugs and birds. We like to deliver a clean, dry, shiny car to customers the first time. Few people like to complain - they usually don't and just don't come back. With a 3-5 mile market area, few businesses can afford a poor reputation. So while not prepping may of course save you time, money and labor, it could also be costing you in the long run if you are always trying to replace dissatisfied customers. Remember, you can do a job right 100 times and often the customers will only remember the one time you fell on your sword.

"I tend to try to be a perfectionist, therefor even with a 150' tunnel with touch-less at the beginning and two sets of cloth equipment, we still prep fronts, rear and windshields as well as for bugs and birds. We like to deliver a clean, dry, shiny car to customers the first time."

I defiantly agree with that. I was just saying, it can be done, but of course, putting a good knowledgeable prep guy(s): knowing when, and where to prep; will produce a good clean car, on a more consistent basis, setting a higher standard and reputation.

 

[Ric]

A lot depends on your location in the USA. I could have never gotten away with no manual prepping in my fully equipped tunnel in SW MI. To me a car was not clean if it still had "interstate iceburgs" hanging off from it during the winter months. I now spend winter in FL and just sit back and shake my head as they wash "clean" cars during the winter. I think the no prep exterior wash has its place...outside of the snowbelt region of the USA.

 

[carnut2]

a $35K Robotic high pressure to automatically prep a car before cloth equipment? Nothing like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. We've been doing that with zero degree nozzles on oscillating spray bars since 1985!

The key to automatic vehicle prepping is having a good pre-soak and high pressure before any cloth equipment. Cloth before the high pressure simply dilutes your pre-soak.

Even with this type of hybrid system, you simply have vehicles that present such difficult wash conditions (mud, bugs, bird crap, etc.), have not been washed in two or three months, and/ or are in such poor condiiton, that manual prepping is still necessary if you are going to be able to deliver a clean, dry shiny car.

If you are adamantly against any manual prepping, you of course can run that way and simply have a no questions asked re-wash policy - because you will have at least 5-10% of vehicles that won't come clean the first time without manula prepping. Of course, putting a vehicle through a second time without any manual prepping may be able to address some of the extra-ordinary conditions, but will only hit the same areas. Without manual prepping, areas like between the windshield wipers and the hood or in around the spare tire on the back of an SUV will still not come clean the second time through.

It all depends on how you want to operate your wash. What you define as an acceptably clean vehicles, and of course your customers and the reputation that you come to develop with them and in your market area. Unfortunately, I tend to try to be a perfectionist, therefor even with a 150' tunnel with touchless at the beginning and two sets of cloth equipment, we still prep fronts, rear and windshields as well as for bugs and birds. We like to deliver a clean, dry, shiny car to customers the first time. Few people like to complain - they usually don't and just don't come back. With a 3-5 mile market area, few businesses can afford a poor reputation. So while not prepping may of course save you time, money and labor, it could also be costing you in the long run if you are always trying to replace dissatisfied customers. Remember, you can do a job right 100 times and often the customers will only remember the one time you fell on your sword.

Chief - Thanks for the input. I'm wondering, in your manual prep are you high pressure washing, bug goo spraying or are you using a prep brush or cloth on the front. back and windshield? We spray bug goo on the front windsheild, grill and bumper and then the hard to reach nooks. Our customers live near the lake so we have a LOT of buggy cars. The equipment guy says to take out the prep guns and let the equipment do its work (the first arch also sprays a bug goo solution on the front and rear of the car). But there are still rewashes occasionally. I have heard other washes scrub the front end with long brushes. I'd think that would cause scratches and more liabilities. Just curious, since I am new to the business. Located in Missouri.

 

[pitzerwm]

IMO you put in equipment to eliminate labor. Otherwise, you would just be hand washing. First, you want a clean car/happy customer what it takes to get there, doesn't matter as long as you make a profit on it. I think that if the cost of rewashes don't pay for the preper then you don't need a preper.

 

[Earl Weiss]

IMO you put in equipment to eliminate labor. Otherwise, you would just be hand washing. First, you want a clean car/happy customer what it takes to get there, doesn't matter as long as you make a profit on it. I think that if the cost of rewashes don't pay for the preper then you don't need a preper.

Like many car wash issue, you ask 5 operators a question and get 10 opinions.

For what Bill hits a market where he charges top dollar for an EE and (apparently) produces a product that is 99+% Clean 99+% of the time. He may vey well be the Nordstrums of the EE. Delta Sonic would fit this mold as well.

I on the other hand target a different segment. More like trying to be the Walmart. Bird poop, Tree Sap, and Brake dust are issues and I can only hope that my market is satisfied with a no questions asked re wash policy. (Runs less than 1%. A lot less than manual prepping would cost.)
Most often the stuff is softened and comes off the second time. The re wash also probably takes less time than extensive hand prepping.

Had one guy on a 10 degree day where the dirt was frozen. Told him to go thru again because the stuff is somewhat warmer and hopefuly my extra hot water arch would take care of it. Then I see him outside talking on the phone. Explained he needed to rewash right away.

 

[Chiefs]

IMO you put in equipment to eliminate labor. Otherwise, you would just be hand washing. First, you want a clean car/happy customer what it takes to get there, doesn't matter as long as you make a profit on it. I think that if the cost of rewashes don't pay for the preper then you don't need a preper.

Of course that's assuming that if you don't prep, your current re-wash rate of less than 1% will remain there. What if the re-wash rate goes to 4 or 5% or more for whatever the reason, mud, bugs, bird droppings or just areas that cloth just cannot reach? That also assumes all dissatisfied customer will express their dissatisfaction. If the commonly heard number of only 1 out of 10 dissatisfied customer actually complaining is true, don't you stand to lose a tremendous number of customers? Won't they instead of coming to you because of your quality just go anywhere because they can get a so-so wash from just about anywhere.

Now I know its just a matter of adding equipment and better wash solution so you don't have to prep. . . what a bunch of B.S. Every car wash receives more than its fair share of cars that have not been washed in 1 - 2 or even 3 months; Cars that are parked under trees; Parked at factories or mills; From rural areas with clay and bugs and bird droppings; And cars, that have shapes and curves and recessed areas that no piece of man-made equipment can reach. How do you get these cars and account for the extra-ordinary conditions they present every operator with 100% clean the first time. Oh and by the way, a recessed area or behind the spare tire on a SUV that doesn't come clean the first time through without prepping, won't come out clean the second time through without prepping. Lastly, don't you as a customer of any business get tired of constantly having to complain to get the job they are supposed to be in business for done right the first time? Don't you evenutally just stop coming back?

 

[Chiefs]

We prep and wash cars at the same time. Prepping does not slow us down even on the busiest wash day (unless we're fighting a lot of snow and ice in winter). We use Hogs Hair brushes (extremely soft and hold a lot of soap). Maybe 1 in 500-1000 customers askl us not to prep their car. We only use them to prep the fronts, windshields and backs of vehicles. We also use prep guns on mud,brid droppings etc.
The reason it does not slow us down even on 1000 plus car days is that we have 25' from the roller up to the first arch and we are front wheel pull. This gives us all the time we need to address specific conditions and brush what we brush. But we let the equipment wash the tops and sides and one set of wraps is sufficient lest we have even more problems with whip antennas. We also do not use an on-demand conveyor, instead we have an automatic tape swicth which calls for the roller up as soon as the vehicle's front wheel clears the roller up door. This prevents the inevitability having car length gaps or more between every vehicle like most roller on demand setups do. This os where the employee takes their good ole time preppping before calling for the roller up and operators seeing those gaps are forced to turn the conveyor up to a 100-120 car an hour line speed to wash 60 cars an how. When we run a 110 cph speed we wash 100-105 an hour - and every one comes clean the first time through. I believe in doing the job right the first time, not relying on customers to have to complain to get a clean car.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If the commonly heard number of only 1 out of 10 dissatisfied customer actually complaining is true, don't you stand to lose a tremendous number of customers?


Won't they instead of coming to you because of your quality just go anywhere because they can get a so-so wash from just about anywhere.

Two good points and I will address them thusly.

I understand that my business model will not fit all the needs / wants of all the car wash customers out there. I target only those who are well satisfied with the quality for the price I offer and I expect to exceed all reasoneable expectations for that price. I really do not stand to lose them since I believe they will not find more satisfaction for the same or similar price anywhere else.

They will not be able to find a wash of the same or equal quality easily at another location with a similar price.

This may not be unlike the restaurant business, Sometimes a fast, inexpensive, less than perfect meal and service is what the public wants, and sometimes they want more.

The trick is serving your target market well.

 

[Chiefs]

I guess each operator has their own definition of what a clean car is. Of course if you're going to a $3-4 car wash you shouldn't expect perfection. I just wonder if those with a no questions asked re-wash policy actually advertise/inform customers of that or simply wait to see if one actually complains. We recently began giving customers a handout explaining our "Clean Car Guarantee". We don't mention the word re-wash, but we encourage customers to let us know if they are not happy with the quality of thier wash for any reason before they leave. Then we'll inspect the problem. If its something that requires detailing like tar, concrete and rims pitted with brake dust we'll explain that it will take detailing to redress but offer them a re-wash nonetheless. Often times when I'mon site and the attendant calls us over, we'll show customers the reason they need detailing by applying some Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax to a couple of areas. I've always found showing customers id preferable to just telling them.