Differences Between Razor Models and Kondor

[kdersch]

What are the primary differences? Between the Edge and XR-7, I am at about a $30k price difference. I know the Edge has a CAT pump and a few more bells and whistles (looks to be an extra pre soak (3 vs. 2) and an extra high pressure option, as well as some more LEDs. The Edge also has HyperFlex which can also speed things up.

The other rep's are pushing Kondor's pretty hard. I have gotten direct Owner review from a Kondor highly advising against the KL2 because of the added moving parts wearing out and the need to install larger nozzles and use more soap because of the fixed arm distance to the vehicle. Does the KL1 have this same issue in anyone's experience?

I'm downsizing from an existing 2 IBA touchless to 1 unless business in 2-3 years justifies a 2nd unit. At this time, it is not economical to replace both units (this is an existing site purchase). We will likely convert the existing 2nd IBA into a self bay with some added features (doors for winter, undercarriage wash, and drive through blower options).

Thanks!

 

[washnshine]

What are the primary differences? Between the Edge and XR-7, I am at about a $30k price difference. I know the Edge has a CAT pump and a few more bells and whistles (looks to be an extra pre soak (3 vs. 2) and an extra high pressure option, as well as some more LEDs. The Edge also has HyperFlex which can also speed things up.

The other rep's are pushing Kondor's pretty hard. I have gotten direct Owner review from a Kondor highly advising against the KL2 because of the added moving parts wearing out and the need to install larger nozzles and use more soap because of the fixed arm distance to the vehicle. Does the KL1 have this same issue in anyone's experience?

I'm downsizing from an existing 2 IBA touchless to 1 unless business in 2-3 years justifies a 2nd unit. At this time, it is not economical to replace both units (this is an existing site purchase). We will likely convert the existing 2nd IBA into a self bay with some added features (doors for winter, undercarriage wash, and drive through blower options).

Thanks!

I can’t comment on a Kondor vs. Washworld, but be careful before downsizing and taking away one IBA. I get it - twice as much to replace two, and if the money or volume aren’t there, then maybe you have to go to one - only you know. But it seems if you have the bays already set up for two, you might want to keep that. Touch free IBA’s dont give you a ton of throughput as you know. With two, you can 1- double the throughput, 2 -never have down time (one should always be operational) and 3 - double the operational years of both machines- over having one do all of your volume.

Don’t know your set up, but maybe keep pay stations and blowers if they are drive through and then go with a more basic, entry level model of whatever machine you choose to keep it economical. IMHO I’d just closely consider my options before going from 2 to 1 IBA’s - especially since you already have the bays set up for it.

 

[Waxman]

Razor all the way!

Differences? Not sure...I'd have to look at specs.

Edge: https://www.washworldinc.com/touch-free/razor-edge/specs

XR7: https://www.washworldinc.com/touch-free/razor-xr7/specs

Here are the Belanger:

KONDOR: http://www.ascws.com/category/16478/belanger-kondor-car-wash-system.htm

I've been through both and considered both. I went with the Razor.

 

[kdersch]

I can’t comment on a Kondor vs. Washworld, but be careful before downsizing and taking away one IBA. I get it - twice as much to replace two, and if the money or volume aren’t there, then maybe you have to go to one - only you know. But it seems if you have the bays already set up for two, you might want to keep that. Touch free IBA’s dont give you a ton of throughput as you know. With two, you can 1- double the throughput, 2 -never have down time (one should always be operational) and 3 - double the operational years of both machines- over having one do all of your volume.

Don’t know your set up, but maybe keep pay stations and blowers if they are drive through and then go with a more basic, entry level model of whatever machine you choose to keep it economical. IMHO I’d just closely consider my options before going from 2 to 1 IBA’s - especially since you already have the bays set up for it.

Understood. We plan to keep the 2nd bay as functional as possible and ready to accept a new IBA down the road. When this site was built, the 2nd bay was a "future" bay but for some reason (perhaps a good sales person), it was outfitted right away. Since opening ~20 years ago, another touchless IBA has been installed near by (which I hope to aquire in a few years). If revenue allows, we will absolutely install another IBA but as of now, the numbers do not work.

 

[kdersch]

Razor all the way!

Differences? Not sure...I'd have to look at specs.

Edge: https://www.washworldinc.com/touch-free/razor-edge/specs

XR7: https://www.washworldinc.com/touch-free/razor-xr7/specs

Here are the Belanger:

KONDOR: http://www.ascws.com/category/16478/belanger-kondor-car-wash-system.htm

I've been through both and considered both. I went with the Razor.

Do you mind sharing with me your equipment specifications and wash packages/pricing? I want to make sure I can offer the items I want and not be dissappointed with a missing option.

Thanks!

 

[Waxman]

I have the cat 3535 pump, stainless steel floor stand, and production arch. lumenarch lights package too. package prices $14,16,18,20. Up from 10,12,13,15. Haven't exactly decided on package passes yet but $20 will be something no one else does, at least around here.

At old pricing, 65% got top pkg. Competitor has friction and is at $20. I can do bug assalt and mirror detailing but won't; at least at first. I have been through several Belanger machines and I like the Washworld equipment better.

I've been in the IBA business for a few years and I had to budget to the extreme when I built new. Now, at this point, I'm doing it right.

 

[DakotaHoskins]

The kondor is at least 2 min faster than the newly installed razor down the street from my wash. The machine has fewer moving parts than the razor. A butterfly gearbox is going to need replaced about every 5 years. Other than that your not looking at any regular repairs other than hoses. Belanger has had some major changes since being bought out. Be sure you have solid Belanger distributor to support your equipment. The new 2 arm Kondor I have with injectors barely uses any chemicals. If you can get a Kondor for 30k cheaper I’m not sure why you wouldn’t go that route. We have 1 saber, 1 Kondor, and 3 freestylers currently in operation. Customers love them compared the ancient mark 7 machines they were previously using.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Customers love them compared the ancient mark 7 machines they were previously using.

Ancient??? Those machines were barely 15 years old when I sold you those washes...

 

[JGinther]

I'm curious how you (Dakota) weigh the freestyler to the mark VII friction machine...?

On touchless, I think spray arm distance to vehicle is a very big part of the equation... But only if your customers have dirty cars. Try washing down a bay next time while holding the gun 1 ft further up... Or 2 feet even (since people can't perfectly center their cars). I think the old vector was a great machine (I still have one), but I've never been impressed with the kondor for cleaning ability.

 

[DavidM]

I don't have hands on experience with the Kondor. When we removed our Vector we installed a Razor Edge. In a touch free wash, vehicle sizing matters. As others have said, high pressure that is too far from the vehicle is less effective.
The Razor Edge is fast (for an IBA), 1 Razor set up well can probably wash 150% of what an older wash is able to do

David

 

[washnshine]

I don't have hands on experience with the Kondor. When we removed our Vector we installed a Razor Edge. In a touch free wash, vehicle sizing matters. As others have said, high pressure that is too far from the vehicle is less effective.
The Razor Edge is fast (for an IBA), 1 Razor set up well can probably wash 150% of what an older wash is able to do

David

That’s the beauty or what they have been able to do with the Petit machines. He’s got nozzles that are sized and have the spray pattern to maintain the impact at 6 feet away. Also very smart to have the top nozzles on their own separate manifold - the pump actually ramps up or pulls back depending on the distance of the vehicles from the top nozzle. Hood of a sports car or top of a van will get the same impact from the Petit machines. Previously not possible on “L” machines.

 

[kdersch]

Lots of good information here - I really appreciate it.

 

[carwashireland]

I can't speak of the differences between a razor and a belanger but we have installed a razor, are next week putting in a razor edge and in October will be putting in an XR7. The main differences between the edge and xr7 is all chemicals (except for tri foam) come out the wand on an XR7, the edge has pods to speed it up and remove the need to purge the lines. You know the pumps are different and the edge obviously has more showmanship. If cutting down to 1 bay I would certainly go with the edge. Purely for throughput and and the extra show, meaning you can get a higher ticket price.

 

[DakotaHoskins]

I'm curious how you (Dakota) weigh the freestyler to the mark VII friction machine...?

The Newest softwash xt is probably the most solid IBA I have of all the 10 IBA’s I have. The freestylers have been great but there are some issues with the booms the hoses travels on and overloads tripping when something comes through the wash that should have. Like a jeep with the light bar. The reason I like the freestylers is the rails are all overhead, can wash dullies, and I can literally do anything with the programming I want. Mark 7 overcomplicates everything and it shows on some levels. Don’t even try telling and attendant how to reset the softwash xt over the phone. The reset procedure is like 13 steps. The freestyler, I use the touchscreen, hit reset and the machine is back in operation. One of the main reasons we went with Belanger machines is we could buy parts directly from the company without going through a distributor. When the company got bought out they told us to use a distributor or get lost. Mark 7 is definitely a much more ethical company and I would probably never buy a new belanger again after the way we have been treated after the buyout. That being said I still like their machines.

 

[soonermajic]

We installed an XR7 last Sept, & love it. Went w/ the cheapest Razor, cause we have peppers in front of the bay & HAD to save money. It has been GREAT! Got LumenArch, & still looks good & business picked up 45% @ night when preppers aren't there.
We're installing a new Edge next week, so I can comment better by Oct. But it's got all the bells & whistles. On advice from this board, we are doing the "Lava Wax" through the Rainbar instead of buying the FoamNflo. Saved us about $3,000 ish & will have much better coverage / show & use much less product.
Obviously the Edge will be really fast. Top pkg, including undercarriage & dwell, is gonna be about 3:50ish. I just don't see any way a Kondor can do top pkg in 1:45ish + what customers want a top pkg wash in around 90 secs?

 

[kdersch]

We installed an XR7 last Sept, & love it. Went w/ the cheapest Razor, cause we have peppers in front of the bay & HAD to save money. It has been GREAT! Got LumenArch, & still looks good & business picked up 45% @ night when preppers aren't there.
We're installing a new Edge next week, so I can comment better by Oct. But it's got all the bells & whistles. On advice from this board, we are doing the "Lava Wax" through the Rainbar instead of buying the FoamNflo. Saved us about $3,000 ish & will have much better coverage / show & use much less product.
Obviously the Edge will be really fast. Top pkg, including undercarriage & dwell, is gonna be about 3:50ish. I just don't see any way a Kondor can do top pkg in 1:45ish + what customers want a top pkg wash in around 90 secs?

What is the top package on the xr7 consist of and how long does it take?

Could you send me some other details on the equipment setup?

 

[soonermajic]

Too pkg XR7: $9
undercarriage 10secs
2 pass PS, 5 sec dwell
Hp rinse
3x foam
Hp rinse
Hp wax/CCP
SFR
4:20 secs

Town LOVES this wash, mainly cause our preppers are so dang good. That's also why i have to be so budget oriented, cause the labor costs alot, & we keep top pkg @ $9 (so they get tips). Tips are usually $1, $3, or $6, with 1/20 being $11!!

 

[washnshine]

Too pkg XR7: $9
undercarriage 10secs
2 pass PS, 5 sec dwell
Hp rinse
3x foam
Hp rinse
Hp wax/CCP
SFR
4:20 secs

Town LOVES this wash, mainly cause our preppers are so dang good. That's also why i have to be so budget oriented, cause the labor costs alot, & we keep top pkg @ $9 (so they get tips). Tips are usually $1, $3, or $6, with 1/20 being $11!!

What do the preppers take care of, coach?

 

[soonermajic]

They ELITE PREP, ie: clean ENTIRE car before it goes in. I advertise it as "Elite Prep",& it is.
The manager can also fix 90% of all SS & IBA matters. So HE, IS the business.