For an air shut off solenoid you will need a large 3 way valve(like a MAC valve), and a multiplex relay. Those relays accept multiple inputs and control one output, Wire the inputs to the hot signal generated by your bay timers and wire those to the input relay. Plumb the 3 way valve so that when activated it turns on the air to your pumps and solenoids, and when off, it bleeds the air pressure to them. Been doing this for years and still can't understand why manufacturers don't do this. You'll have around $400 in parts and 2 hours labor.
Do I need check valve
- Thread starter Dan-Ark
- Start date
All you really need to do is install a IDX MX-8 Multiplexer and your problem will be solved https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-24642-idx-mx10-24v-multiplex-controller.aspx and a 24 volt solenoid valve on the air supply. The MX-8 will control connect to each of the bays and control the solenoid valve, turning it on and off. We've been doing it this way for over 25 years. We also use the MX-8 to start and stop our Presoak pump.
See post 45 thru 47
http://www.autocareforum.com/showth...t-Mark-VII-Pump-Stand/page5&highlight=modding
There are several ways to do this...I chose to use relays that take bay input from FB and PS to open the air solenoid to the flojet. I just use 1/8" SS kips and they supply way more air than needed. You can also use a IDX MX-8 that Randy uses that will do the same thing, maybe a little easier to wire but more expensive. The Idec relays I use cost about $7 each....And have several million life cycles, maybe more with less than 5w load on them.
Mac, Can you let us know why you need a 3 way relieving solenoid? I can't quite figure that one out? The simple/cheap Kips I use work great....
http://www.autocareforum.com/showth...t-Mark-VII-Pump-Stand/page5&highlight=modding
There are several ways to do this...I chose to use relays that take bay input from FB and PS to open the air solenoid to the flojet. I just use 1/8" SS kips and they supply way more air than needed. You can also use a IDX MX-8 that Randy uses that will do the same thing, maybe a little easier to wire but more expensive. The Idec relays I use cost about $7 each....And have several million life cycles, maybe more with less than 5w load on them.
Mac, Can you let us know why you need a 3 way relieving solenoid? I can't quite figure that one out? The simple/cheap Kips I use work great....
Here's something I had to learn the hard way. If you use a regular Kip solenoid for this shut off, it will not supply enough air to run all low pressure functions when you are rocking and rolling. Open that valve and you will see a real, real, tiny orifice, I think it's around 3/32", to let air flow. Engineers call it Cv. The Mac valves have a huge flow available due to their design. And the purpose of the 3 way is to relieve the air pressure on the Flojets when not in use. As those pumps age, they get stiff, just like us. So when you have a 3 or 4 day period of crappy weather when no one uses the wash, all of the rubber parts sit there with air on them. Then when the first customer comes in, nothing happens till you relieve the air pressure and turn it back on. And again, why oh why don't any of the manufacturers do this?
I hate learning the hard way, so I did a test at home before installing the Kip SS solenoids. At 60 psi, a kip will supply enough air to pump 5 gpm of water with a flojet. Sounded like a machine gun going off. So I felt pretty comfortable installing it at the wash. I run 20 Oz per minute per bay on fb and 40 oz per minute per bay on ps. So not even close to what I tested at home. The kips have been installed over 2 years now and not a single issue. Maybe using 3/8 lines out to the bays has something to do with it working so well. 8 times less pressure needed than 1/4"?
OurTown
Well-known member
Kip valves come in different orifice sizes. I bought a 1/8" to install between the regulator and pump for our three bay foam brush. I'm going to check output (with all three running) before and after install. Also I like what Randy was talking about and may try that tiny bleed off idea. What is the orifice size of your valve 2biz? I'm wondering if mac puts the valve on all air to the system including the air injection solenoids. That plus having more bays would be a lot more volume.
I use 1/8" SS Kips, although I bet a 3/32" will work just as good. But what are we talking, less than $30 bucks for the 1/8" SS Kip. No need for the bleeder. I see no reason to install it. I stop at my wash 3 times a day and feel the head of the compressor and do a walk through. I would know pretty quick if I had a leaky solenoid that needed attention. Been installed this way several years and not a single issue. I do have a separate 3/8 air supply to both PS and FB for mix air. Totally separate from the regulators for the Flojets. There is where the difference is between Mac and my installations. Although I see his reasoning, I've never had an issue with Kips. So if its not broke, I don't fix it!
I.B. Washincars
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I do it easier than that. I installed a CV in the low point in the plumbing. I screwed it in finger-tight with no tape, so the pressure would leak off. Hopefully, as the pressure leaks off, the CV will uncheck as well, relieving any other pressure and moisture. I never hung around to see if it actually unchecked, since the leaking at the threads accomplishes the objective.
if it works for you, then it works. Either way we are shooting at the same target. And again, my point is made. That is why don't ANY of the manufacturers offer this? This is a simple solution to an issue that can cost a bunch.
I think we can all agree there are many ways to basically do the same thing at a CW....Its nice to have a platform on the net to share ideas and real world results. For those of you bleeding off the pressure between the solenoid/regulator and the flojet, what's the reasoning and mechanical advantage? For many years, air pressure was deadheaded against my flojets which led me to adding the air shutoff solenoids. I still have pressure deadheaded against the flojet, but have a failsafe built in on the air supply, just in case...
But you are exactly right, we are all trying to solve this problem since some sort of failsafe was left out of all systems I've ever seen. Why??? This isn't rocket science and you'd think some manufacturers out there would be lurking here getting ideas to build the ultimate stand that incorporates some of our best ideas?! Not!
But you are exactly right, we are all trying to solve this problem since some sort of failsafe was left out of all systems I've ever seen. Why??? This isn't rocket science and you'd think some manufacturers out there would be lurking here getting ideas to build the ultimate stand that incorporates some of our best ideas?! Not!
OurTown
Well-known member
When we bought our Air Logic foam brush system earlier this year the owner said he could add it but he sorta talked me out of it because of the cost vs benefit. We are now going to add it but just need the time to do it.
I never had the time either! Until it bit my a$$ again for the third time! 5 gallons of PS and hundreds of gallons mixed chemical all over the Er and pump stand! Let alone all the bays down because of soaked belts and issues with a soaked pump stand. The previous two times was just debris in a liquid solenoid and just made a mess in a bay. But soaking the pump stand with PS took it to another level! I found the time and got the air shutoffs added shortly after...It shouldn't have taken me three times getting burnt to make it failsafe.
MEP001
Well-known member
I used to build equipment with Yamada pumps. Many years ago they were great, but the first ones we put in would fail after a few months. The manufacturer said we should not be dead-heading them so we added a control box and solenoid. Someone called me about three months ago who had the original Yamada pumps I built his equipment with over 20 years ago, of which one was finally failing. Manufacturers stopped putting in air controls when FloJets came along because it doesn't substantially affect their life, and it reduces build cost.
