Do You Disable Low Pressure Functions During Extreme Cold, But Stay Open?

[2Biz]

This past cold snap has me rethinking things, again! Even though I have a blow Down, washer fluid injection system installed on all low pressure hoses, its not totally perfect. Last week I had people washing cars at -2°. I have no other problems staying open at these temps other than the Foam Gun and FB hoses...Even though they get protected correctly @ 32° with a blow down WWF injection cycle, when someone tries to use the foam gun or FB @ say 0°, I believe the soap is "Flash Freezing" in the hose. The Foam Gun is worse since the coiled hose is 35' long. When the foam flash freezes, no amount of air or washer fluid will unplug it.

I refuse to weep water in the LP hoses since my water/sewage bill is bad enough compared to income. I'm now redesigning my weep system so I can blow down the HP hoses and shut down 2, 3, or all 4 of my bays depending on daytime temps. Hardly anybody washes below 20° and it just doesn't make sense to stay open 100%.

Another solution, even if I only had 1 bay open, would be to disable all LP functions below, say 20° and post it in the bays. This would at least allow the "Die Hard" to wash the salt off their car if they choose to do so. Does anybody do this? It would be fairly easy to install using relays and a separate thermostat. I could always use output 2 on the weepmizer, but its set at 32° and I think its a little high for what I'm trying to accomplish.

Keeping a bay open during extreme cold, but limiting functions, may be the way to go, I don't know? Your thoughts? This business is, most usually, very competitive so we need to always be thinking of better ways to maximize the bottom line. I'm tired of wasting $$$.....

 

[Semi-retired]

Are there no doors on your wash bays?

 

[2Biz]

No Doors... I live in Southern Ohio and the past 2 years have been the coldest in the past 30 years....Very few SS washes around here have doors, none on both ends. Just the exit ends and this is very few. Even in Cincinnati where incomes can support the added cost, I haven't seen any SS bays with doors.

Most CW's around here shut down and wait for better weather. Just trying to keep an edge on the local competition without sinking a ton of money in doors.

 

[wash4me]

We open 2 of 6 bays and the auto. It depends how your floor heat is separated out. Ours is 2 bays at a time. We put antifreeze in the rinse tank and spray until the antifreeze comes out and then turn off the weep valves for those closed down bays. I am working on a windshield washer blowdown that 's automatic but as of now it's not installed. If anyone has done this I'd appreciate input on pressure of windshield washer fluid, air and the time sequence.

 

[2Biz]

The WF/Blowdown system your working on, is it for the low pressure hoses or the HP hoses? For my low pressure hoses, I purge with 50psi of air for 10 seconds, then inject WF with a flojet @ 40psi for 5 seconds, then follow that by another blast of air for 10 seconds...

I finished my new weep system today but temps hovered around 35°, so I didn't get it installed. The solenoid will go between the filter and first tee. This design gives me the option to blow out all bays at once, or do each one individually.

When temps get down to what we had this past week, I think I'm going down to one bay. Even it will be idle 95% of the time! The floor heat is another issue. I do have the ability to turn off each bay, but is it worth busting a line in the floor? I'm good to -50° burst, 0° flow...

 

[cantbreak80]

Good decision...even though I think your sub 15* idle time is more likely 99%. Trying to stay open and operational at those temps is of little value. Consider the odd individual who spends $2 which results in you spending hours thawing and repairing. Not worth it in my book. Just close the place, turn off the transformer(s) and wait it out. And, smile as your competitors spend a cold morning doing the thawing for that $2.

I'd leave the floor heat on or maybe turned down a bit (especially with your system). It takes a long time to bring that mass back above freezing...and you'll want to be ready to reopen quickly, right.

Washme4...
I run my system at 30psi Air and 50psi washer fluid pump...same times as 2Biz, but my air and fluid supply lines are 1/4" vs. 3/8".
Actually, it's: wait 10 seconds after the product is switched off, then 10 seconds air-blow-out, 5 seconds of washer pump, 5 second pause, and finally another 10 second blow-out.

 

[Randy]

We close down the car washes when the daytime temperature doesn’t get above 25 deg. It’s not cost effective to keep them open when it’s real cold having the weep run, fighting the ice buildup and putting yourself at risk for a slip and fall, it’s just not worth it, at least not to us. Big deal you lose a little revenue, the peace of mind is a lot better. We pull the guns and foam brush handles, blow down the lines with air, pump windshield washer fluid into the lines, turn off the power to the bays and call it a day. When temperature comes back up we reopen, last year we shut down for 3 days a where slammed when reopened, I don’t think we lost anything. So far this year we haven’t shut down.

 

[pgrzes]

I agree with Randy and also close under 25 Deg.

 

[wash4me]

I'm working on a system for the high pressure. It's a plc controlled system that will be tied in above the bays to the existing tree of low pressure functions. I guess i need a little over a thousand feet of 1/4 inch poly tube. I was looking at the auto parts store and they said a 1000 foot roll of the dot approved air brake line was $400. Polyethylene polypropylene and nylon seem to be the available tube types. They vary in price from 5 cents to 50 cents a foot. Any thoughts on this? I have lots of some kind of tubing but I don't know what kind it is?

 

[2Biz]

I use LLDPE tubing for everything except Spot Free Rinse. There I use Nylon since it has a slightly higher pressure rating. I get all my LLDPE (Polyethylene) tubing from Freshwatersystems.com....A 500ft roll of 1/4" is just under $40. I also get my John Guest push to connect fittings there as well. Although CB80 turned me onto SMC brass fittings and I like them much better. If you look at my new weep system, I used the SMC fittings.

If/When you get the HP hoses protected with washer fluid and blow down, let us all know how it works. The only problem I forsee, is the same issue I am having on the LP hoses. Flash freezing in extreme cold. But then if you shut down?

 

[2Biz]

I think your sub 15* idle time is more likely 99%.

So I exaggerated just a tiny bit!

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

I shut down below about 15°, exact temp depends on conditions. I also close when it starts to snow and dont reopen until the roads are clear and the knuckleheads have brushed the snow off their cars somewhere other than in my bays.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

I get all my LLDPE (Polyethylene) tubing from Freshwatersystems.com....A 500ft roll of 1/4" is just under $40.

I just paid $70 at Kleen Rite last week. Next time I'll try your source - good lead.

 

[2Biz]

I shut down below about 15°, exact temp depends on conditions. I also close when it starts to snow and dont reopen until the roads are clear and the knuckleheads have brushed the snow off their cars somewhere other than in my bays.

The first time a "Knucklehead" did this to me, I couldn't believe it! Made me want to get a dump-truck full of snow and dump it on their front porch!

I just paid $70 at Kleen Rite last week. Next time I'll try your source - good lead.

The tubing they sell is John Guest Brand. Or at least that's what I got and I've ordered several times. It has a rating of 230psi @ 70°....120psi @150°....I haven't had any of it fail yet. I'm also experimenting with their black LLDPE for outside use. Its UV resistant. I have it going from the trough to the boom ends in my truck bay. So far so good.

 

[mjwalsh]

I shut down below about 15°, exact temp depends on conditions. I also close when it starts to snow and dont reopen until the roads are clear and the knuckleheads have brushed the snow off their cars somewhere other than in my bays.

Paul,

We have some unpleasant memories of some pickup trucks with beds full of snow & ice chunks actually leaving a huge pile over our grates. We learned the hard way as to how long that takes to melt & how much it acts as a refrigerator for the bay ... among the blocking effect & other problems etc.

One more thing that some in milder climates do not have to deal with.

mike walsh http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[soapy]

I run all my low pressure functions out to the bay in a 6 inch PVC pipe along with the HP functions. Then above the boom I use a large electrical box to hold the manifolds and check valves where all the LP chemicals are injected into the HP hose. In the PVC and electrical boxes I run a heated electrical cable. It keeps all the hoses warm and the inside of the electrical box so I never have to worry about the LP functions freezing. i weep water through the HP hose. If I ever have a freeze up it is only in the HP hose from the boom down. I shut my washes down when it is 0 or less.

 

[Waxman]

i have doors so freezing is less of a problem. I have thought about doing what soapy does; sounds like a great idea!

I rarely shut down a bay of SS; just for repairs mostly. I raised my start up price to $3 to take some of the sting out of cleaning up after the snow and mud removal customers. I want their $3.

 

[2Biz]

I run all my hoses in a 5" pvc trough heated with Heat tape and a loop from the floor heat. It stays about 110° in the trough, just because that's the temperature of the heat tape. So my setup is similar to yours. The only difference is all my LP functions come out the foam gun or foam brush which I blow down with air and WWF. It works extremely well down to about zero. Then is when I believe the foam freezes before it get to the tip of the Foam gun. That is if somebody uses those functions at zero or below. That's why I was wondering if anybody just disabled those functions below 15° or so.

How do you keep your Foam Brush from freezing down to zero before you close?

 

[soapy]

I make my own foamy brush solution using methenol. You could also do it with RV type antifreeze. One thing about using methenol in your foam brush is that a foamy brush never cleaned so well. It makes glass and chrome shine.

 

[2Biz]

I used to use methanol mixed with FB soap, but did away with it to minimize cost and change-over time. I also added an open flame ceramic wall heater as a backup ER heat source. So that was another reason to get rid of the methanol.