DRB SYSTEMS VS. ICS and MICROLOGIC

[sonicsoft]

So anyone that has read some of my other posts, they know in the past I was an ardent supporter of DRB Systems. My number one reason for having confidence in DRB Systems was their support staff, in the last three years I've felt their support team as eroded to a level of dismal.

I've been told by DRB on several occasions that their tags are fool proof that the probability of Wash Pass Tags going bad or being Dead on Arrival is very slim. Well I have a folder of tags which I have replaced at my cost at $3.00 a piece on customers cars were the RFID tag has never worked or after a few months stops working. When we remove the tag and then wave it at the RFID reader it does not read it yet I am always told it's not the pass it's the windshield or particular make of the car.

The caliber of the support team feels like it has plummeted, both in ability and demeanor. This is not the first time that I've had to use this forum to get results. It angers me that I must take time and create public scrutiny of their service team to get some action.

On a couple of occasion's I've had the tech support person tell me that he can't help me and he'll have someone call me back, in those circumstances it always takes a few hours to get a call back.

I really want to know if ICS or Micrologic are they the better way to go?

 

[easywash]

RFID Tags

We have over 2000 RFID tags in circulation currently.

There certainly are issues with specific vehicle types the give us problems:

Rolls Royce,
Top End Mercedes
Top End BMW

In the case of the last two Mercedes and BMW take a look at the windshield carefully, If you see tiny grid of wires (heated windshield) then the RFID will NOT work. Also there are certain coatings specifically on the Mercedes the impede the RFID.

We have also found that putting tags in the Tint is OK but if you put it in the Stippling (Black Dotted Area) may also impede the use.

Some cars have antennas embedded in the glass with make it hard to get the RFID to work.

Normally we place tags in the upper drivers side corner of the windshield. That said with certain BMW's we have had to put the tags in the lower drivers side.

There are several BMW and Mercedes that we simply can not get to work no matter what we do. In those cases we put an RFID and a plastic card and call it a "VIP Card" then the customer just places it on the windshield of the car when he pulls up and it reads fine.

RFID is not perfect but we can usually get it to work 99.5% of the time

 

[sonicsoft]

Thanks for the reply. I've been having problems with GM cars, chryslers, and some others. I don't think my issues are related to yours.

 

[easywash]

Rfid

I am using ICS and we have absolutely no issues with any GM or Chrysler vehicles...

With DRB do you have any way of looking at what type of signal your RFID antenae are picking up. ICS has a tag read log which shows every time a tag is read. I can look at the signal strength and try and determine if there is an issue that way.

With our system we have a threshold strength of 20 which must be reached in order for the tag to activate our system.

What type of system does DRB use?

If you aren't already, keep a written log of each and every time a vehicles tag will not read... this helped us decipher any model issues we were having and you can start to see trends.

If DRB can't/won't help you, go over their head... I would suggest that you have them refer you DIRECTLY to the RFID Manufacturer. We did this with ICS and we were able to resolve an issue we had for 6 months in about 12 hours.

There are specific and VERY EXPENSIVE diagnostic tools that can used to figure out what the problem you are having is.

In my case it was a cable length issue wich was resolved by placing the readers in Nema enclosures right in the bay instead of in my server room.

 

[buda]

ISC vs DRB

Without question, ICS is the best company to deal with. Very customer oriented and they are carwash people first, not computer people.

Owner, is a car wash operator.

Regards

So anyone that has read some of my other posts, they know in the past I was an ardent supporter of DRB Systems. My number one reason for having confidence in DRB Systems was their support staff, in the last three years I've felt their support team as eroded to a level of dismal.

I've been told by DRB on several occasions that their tags are fool proof that the probability of Wash Pass Tags going bad or being Dead on Arrival is very slim. Well I have a folder of tags which I have replaced at my cost at $3.00 a piece on customers cars were the RFID tag has never worked or after a few months stops working. When we remove the tag and then wave it at the RFID reader it does not read it yet I am always told it's not the pass it's the windshield or particular make of the car.

The caliber of the support team feels like it has plummeted, both in ability and demeanor. This is not the first time that I've had to use this forum to get results. It angers me that I must take time and create public scrutiny of their service team to get some action.

On a couple of occasion's I've had the tech support person tell me that he can't help me and he'll have someone call me back, in those circumstances it always takes a few hours to get a call back.

I really want to know if ICS or Micrologic are they the better way to go?

 

[JMMUSTANG]

I have had Micrologic for almost one year and the verdict still out.

 

[DAVough]

Dear Sonicsoft,

DRB Systems values its customers and our Support team strives to provide the best support and service at all times - we regret if we've failed you. I would very much like to discuss with you at your earliest convenience the concerns you have expressed about your Support experience. All of our 30 Technical Support Reps are fully trained in all of the DRB Systems products but on some occasions your call in this area may be transferred to our XPT / FastPass team for further review. Since our company has not been able to make such a connection with you since this public posting, I'd ask you to contact me directly at (330)-645-4200 or (330)-645-3299 anytime.

In regards to the problems you have been experiencing with the FastPass tags, our staff has training and experience at tracking down and resolving issues whether it be with a tag, a FastPass reader or an environmental challenge such as a specific car. We have a large number of successful FastPass implementations (with about 100,000 tags issued) that are working well and providing value to our customers and I am 100% confident that we can resolve the issue at hand in a very timely manner. Again please contact me at your earliest convenience.

Thank you,
Dane Vough
Director Customer Support and Service
DRB Systems, Inc.

 

[dewey9876]

When we remove the tag and then wave it at the RFID reader it does not read it

I am not an expert or do I even have this system but I thought I heard or read that when you remove one of these tags it disables it so people can't transfer tags between cars. Is this true? That sounds like a good security measure to me.

 

[DAVough]

Dear dewey9876.

Yes, DRB Systems' FastPass product considers such security measures. Feel free to contact me at 330-645-4200 for more technical details on the FastPass product.

Thanks,
Dane Vough
Director Customer Support and Service

 

[dvassilian]

I have been having ongoing RFID problems for over 2 years and am still pleading daily with ICS to do something. I have done everything they said, from getting thicker coax cable, to replacing my antennas, software updates, firmware updates and finally replacing the Alien reader. Still problems all the time. Every time I call ICS Tier 3 techs, they keep telling me, "my site is the only one with these reader problems, so it must be something at my site." I have a feeling I are not the only one. Since, ICS did not know what the problem is, I had to $2,000 to have a senior Tech from Alien, Steven Schauer, come to my site. For 2 days he ran tests. He found the reader works perfectly operating by itself, but as soon as it is connected to ICS's software, it stops working. The ICS software causes the Alien RFID reader to not read at all or for only 1 second, even though it is set to read for 5 seconds. Thus getting no or not even minimum read counts. I have it at full power at 0 attenuation and nothing for both of my lanes. I have club members so upset and cancelling memberships all the time now. I have employees quitting because it is such a hassle and club members getting irate with them. I have spent 100's of hours of my own time on the phone with ICS Tech Support. It has got so bad Club members have now complained on Yelp and other social media to not buy our club memberships, thus, ruining our sales and reputation. Also, every month at any random time, our entire POS system will go down. We get "Fatal Error" messages at the auto sentrys and everything in the tunnel just stops. A lot of times it happens on a busy Saturday morning. The only thing they tell us to do is close all the programs and shut down and restart the server. It usually fixes the problem, but it takes the longest 10 minutes ever to get everything up and running again, including the ICS Tunnel Master controller. I have to give out refunds to everybody in line to try to appease them and others go to my competition across the street who have DRB. I am wondering if anybody else has these problems with their ICS POS? I have tried contacting Bill Meyers multiple times, the Director of Support at ICS. He is non-reponsive. I always wondered why the big car wash chains choose DRB which is more expensive both in equipment, credit card fees and tech service contracts over ICS who is less. I think I know why now. I am losing so much business to my competitor across the street, who has DRB, that I am going to spend $150K for a new DRB system, XPT's, RFID reader, and tunnel controller and junk my 2010 ICS system. I would not wish my ICS system on anybody. Anybody else have ongoing problems with their ICS system besides me?

Thanks

 

[buda]

I had great service from ICS. Call Kevin Deitrich the owner personally I have never known him to not solve a problem.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I suggest you contact legal counsel to see about at least gettin your money back for the ICS system.

Your state should have "Lemon LAws" or laws involving "warranty of Merchantability" which allow for this and include a provison to pay your attorney fees. Just have good records of each and every service issue and attempts to correct issues that have failed.

 

[hkim310]

I can only speak of ICS as they are the only one that we have ever dealt with. It's hit or miss on the level of support you will receive when you call them for assistance. Some of their help desk technicians are supremely knowledgeable and go above and beyond to help you resolve any issue you might be having. Other's, do not seem to know anything technical let alone car wash related and probably should not be left to answer calls alone as they give incomplete and flat out wrong information at times. We also have RFID with ICS and have had issues with dead tags as well. Most, I would say 85% of the tags are good and working well but a good 15% do not work at all or seem to go bad within less than 1 month.

 

[dvassilian]

Thank you for your replies Bud, Earl and Hkim. I will try contacting ICS owner, Kevin Deitrich, and if that does not get anywhere I will talk to my legal counsel about my legal options.

Sincere Thanks.