evaporation or water loss?

[JustClean]

Hi guys
Can anyone help me with this?

My IBA is connected to my recycle system. The water goes from the IBA pit to the first underground tank, to the second and then to the third from where it is then pumped up again to the recycle system and then used for the next car.
Every day there is a backwash of about 350 litres into sewer.

My problem is that I loose water: roughly 3,500 litres a week AFTER I re-routed the backwash back into the system. So there is no connection to the sewer at the moment. The automatic uses about 30 litres of FRESH water on each car that gets added into the system. But this doesn't seem to be enough to keep the water level up. Do you think this could be all evaporation or do I have a major leak somewhere?

 

[Randy]

Major Leak

 

[I.B. Washincars]

You're losing 924 gallons a week. How many cars are you washing? I would think any car would carry out a gallon. Pickups are going to carry out more. Those with a bedliner, even more than that. Some water escapes the bay as overspray. Some evaporates from the floor. If you are washing 50+ cars a day you may not even have a problem. JMO

 

[JGinther]

You should quit paying your sewer bill! Next time some bad weather comes in, you should do a level check on the underground tanks, close down overnight, and recheck in the morning. You could be filling the aquifers. I put in a weep reclaim system at one wash and found out the hard way that my sand trap was leaking down. It would only run out on the really cold snowy nights when no one was washing for over 24 hrs (so everything would freeze solid). I had to add in a control to switch over to fresh weep when the level ran really low.

 

[JustClean]

Next time some bad weather comes in, you should do a level check on the underground tanks, close down overnight, and recheck in the morning. You could be filling the aquifers.

I will do this tonight.
We are not washing many cars. But I will let you all know what the outcome is. I think we have some ghosts at the wash )

 

[JustClean]

Last night I turned off the recycle system and the next morning the underground tank was still full of water! I had a look on the Internet on "evaporation calculations" and it seems that this waterloss could be just that: evaporation - unreal! Thanks for all the help

 

[soapy]

I recall the ICA did a study a few years back and calculated that 30 to 35% of the water used per car does not go down the sewer. It is used up in carry off and evaporation. SOme have even taken the data to their sewer districts to get releif on the sewer bill. SOme have been able to get reduced rates while most have not. City officials hate to give up revenue just because you have facts.

 

[washnvac]

I have a sewer meter on a 4 s/s plus 2 friction ibas. Actual loss to evap and carryoff for me is 10-12%. I was way disappointed, as I was expecting the 20-25% that the ICA survey indicated. It is a mystery to me.

 

[Dean Taylor]

Some people want to save as much water as possible, some want to get rid of as much as possible, this mainly depends on the discharge limitations, sewer metering etc.

Water losses in a self-service bay can be 20%-25%. This is mostly due to the typically open bays and atomization of water coming out of the spray wands.

In a tunnel or IBA, there are many factors which come into play. Typical loss in one of these washes is 3-5 gallons per vehicle washed but again, it depends on a lot of factors.

Some of these are:

1. Location- Example: A car wash in Airizona will certainly lose more water from evaporation than one in Minnesota, due to the low humidity. Likewise, the weather will effect the losses too.

2. Wind- You will lose more water on a windy day than a calm day because of the water being blown outside.

3. Wash & Dry processes- A tunnel who hand drys cars without a blow dryer will lose much more water than a wash that has a blower at the end. Some owner's also adjust their blowers to blow water outside or back inside, depending on if they are trying to save or lose water.

4. An undercarriage wash will carry-off more than a gallon per vehicle washed in most cases.

5. Building construction- Losses are effected by the position of the building with respect to the common wind directions.

Some owner's I know have also designed in large open sides on their wash in order to lose more water. This is helpful when there is limited discharge available.

 

[Waxman]

Yes, municipalities are loathe to reduce any of your basic charges, facts or no facts.

I called my sewer dept. to inquire about a sewer meter. Their reply was there are no sewer meters allowed per the sewer ordinance. I think I will get a copy of said ordinance and read through just to make sure the facts are there to support the statement.

Regardless, the lack of give in this regard on their part makes me want to conserve wherever I can within the town bylaws, of course.!

 

[pitzerwm]

Remember that you are the only source of revenue for your city, most of them couldn't run a lemonade stand, so they just assume that you will eat it and since your vote is small, they aren't too worried about you.

 

[toddmullens]

I recall the ICA did a study a few years back and calculated that 30 to 35% of the water used per car does not go down the sewer. It is used up in carry off and evaporation. SOme have even taken the data to their sewer districts to get releif on the sewer bill. SOme have been able to get reduced rates while most have not. City officials hate to give up revenue just because you have facts.

Does anybody know where I can obtain a copy of this study done by the ICA?

 

[rph9168]

This might be what you want.

http://www.carwash.org/SiteCollecti...Use in the Professional Car Wash Industry.pdf

 

[toddmullens]

Thank you very much! I have been looking in all the wrong places for this jewel! Thanks
Again

 

[Indiana Wash]

According to the study at the ICA, 30% of IBA water is carried atomized, carried off or evaporates. That means 30% of the water we use does not go into the sewer. My lovely municipality refused to give any discounts or even allow me to install a sewer meter at my own cost and pay for the amount of sewer used.

 

[Ric]

Assuming you could install a 4" sewer meter at your own expense, what would the cost be (just the meter, not including excavation, etc.)? Anyone done it? Have a source to purchase the meter?

 

[pitzerwm]

Bottom line is that the governments are broke, you are the only source of money, they don't care about fair.

 

[washnvac]

Assuming you could install a 4" sewer meter at your own expense, what would the cost be (just the meter, not including excavation, etc.)? Anyone done it? Have a source to purchase the meter?

Yes. I put in an ultrasonic meter. I think it was called a macrometer. I am on a pumping station though; this meter needs full flow to operate. It has no impeller.

My full cost was $4000. I think the meter only was $2600. It is a 2 inch line.