Fixin' a Coleman Shampooer...fewer parts needed

[cantbreak80]

My Coleman shampoo/vac has been a troublesome piece over the past year. After a bit of diagnosis, tinkering, and clean-up I think I figured out why it was being so cranky. The tank heater had failed and most of the plumbing froze. THAT’S why I had to replace those plastic filters and fittings so often!!!

New heater, some fittings and tubing, decals, new programming, fresh fill of shampoo and yea!...it’s back in service.

One week later a customer complains that there’s no foam…just soapy water.

“Bugger!”

The Thomas compressor motor runs but alas, no compressed air. Thomas is no longer available…no repair parts…new comparable compressor is $400 +!!!

Today, I rediscovered the water supply pipe for the abandoned chamois sink that lived on the same island. After thawing it out I connected the whole-house compressor to its equipment room end and voila…I now have air to the island!

A few fittings, some conduit, a solenoid valve, and a pressure regulator and the shampooer will be up and running again. Yea!

I’m gonna take my girlfriend out to our fav restaurant with the money I saved. Oh, wait. That’s not really saving money, is it?

 

[2Biz]

I can't believe an Idec Programmable Relay wasn't part of the "Parts List"!

Are you related to McGiver?

 

[slash007]

My Coleman shampoo/vac has been a troublesome piece over the past year. After a bit of diagnosis, tinkering, and clean-up I think I figured out why it was being so cranky. The tank heater had failed and most of the plumbing froze. THAT’S why I had to replace those plastic filters and fittings so often!!!

New heater, some fittings and tubing, decals, new programming, fresh fill of shampoo and yea!...it’s back in service.

One week later a customer complains that there’s no foam…just soapy water.

“Bugger!”

The Thomas compressor motor runs but alas, no compressed air. Thomas is no longer available…no repair parts…new comparable compressor is $400 +!!!

Today, I rediscovered the water supply pipe for the abandoned chamois sink that lived on the same island. After thawing it out I connected the whole-house compressor to its equipment room end and voila…I now have air to the island!

A few fittings, some conduit, a solenoid valve, and a pressure regulator and the shampooer will be up and running again. Yea!

I’m gonna take my girlfriend out to our fav restaurant with the money I saved. Oh, wait. That’s not really saving money, is it?

I've had the clear screw-on cap on the plastic filter bowl freeze and crack on both of my shampooers. Is the heater the likely culprit? I figured that it was because I hadn't use anti-freeze shampoo.

 

[cantbreak80]

I can't believe an Idec Programmable Relay wasn't part of the "Parts List"!

Funny you should mention that because... It did! Works great except for no timer display. It even includes last coin alert, two-timer, freeze protection blow down, low level out of service.

But then, I obtained a B&C 1034 so I installed the "stolen idea" system instead.

 

[cantbreak80]

I've had the clear screw-on cap on the plastic filter bowl freeze and crack on both of my shampooers. Is the heater the likely culprit? I figured that it was because I hadn't use anti-freeze shampoo.

I would say yes. I replaced 2 filters in 3 days before the "light went on". As it turned out, both of the silicone heaters had failed. But, check the snap disk thermostat (behind the lower shroud) and the tank stat (threaded into the tank), too.

You're probably aware, but just in case...DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! 120 VOLTS!!!

 

[cantbreak80]

I can't believe an Idec Programmable Relay wasn't part of the "Parts List"!

BTW...don't you know I found a use for my old FL1Bs? They're now used to delay FB operation for 3 sec IF WM output 2 is on. Keeps the "switch rotators" from filling the exposed FB tubing...and saving washer fluid.

Gonna need some new softeners soon...wonder what I'll do with that old FL1C???

 

[2Biz]

I just use winter foam brush soap... I've thought about converting it to washer fluid blowdown and using summer FB soap, but it cost me less than $200 a winter for the WFB soap...So its almost not worth it. I use less than 55 gallons at my current rate of usage...Plus my FB Generators are in the ER with 5/8 ID hose going all the way out to the bays. It would be hard to put check valves inline without doing a major over haul to make the switch. So I'll stick with what I have for now. About the only modification I could make is a winter/summer switch over for those busy 50° winter days...But it really wouldn't save me much. Plus I really don't know how that works anyway. If it was 50° thru the day and it got cold enough to switch over at night, there would still be summer fluid in the tank and lines...If the FB was used in the night, it would freeze...

BTW...You have been "Fixin" a lot lately! Glad I motivated you! Ha...

I had to fix my Tri-Foam last night. The Yellow soap had the nylon hose all plugged up with this whiteish/yellow crystal looking stuff. The hydrominder tip was plugged too. This is the first time this has happened. No biggy, just something else needing "Fixed"....

BTW x 2, I'm sure there are "Patented" 3 second delay relays out there...Are you sure you're not in violation?

 

[cantbreak80]

There you go…

I’d could justify the “upgrade” by making the foam brush delivery quicker to the bays.

Remove the foamers and check valves (neither are required)…convert to ¼” poly tubing from the solenoid valves to the roof penetration above each boom. Install a cross (or 2 tees) with the air going into one branch and ww fluid into the other branch. 5/8” hose out to the boom.

Add 4 solenoids to your air manifold…tee their outputs into the other 4 air lines…wire up the stolen idea…voila.

Thick, rich foam delivered to the customer in 3 to 4 seconds. Same inexpensive soap year round with no more worries about change-over, unexpected cold snaps, and the like.

 

[2Biz]

The Gears Are Turning!

So I get this straight...Install a 1/4" NPT cross above each bay...Use 1/4" poly hose for each line. Air in from FB input. Soap in from FB input. Washer fluid in from Idec. Air in (Tee'd to air input) from Idec. 5/8 ID hose out to bays. So a 1/4" Cross will have enough connections to do this...

I think I get it, the only question is why don't you need check valves? My Tri-Foam has check valves on each 1/4" connection above the bays...Another thing, Dultimeir used a piece of brass pipe with what looks like a spiral Stainless Steel drill chip in it right before the pipe nipple and 1/2" poly out to the bays....I guess this is to help make foam easier?

Then its basically easier to connect our secret idea or should I say our stolen idea...It sure would be nice not to have to switch over to Winter FB soap...

 

[cantbreak80]

Air in, Soap in, WW in, Foam out
This means 3 inlets and 1 outlet
Either 1 cross or 2 tees will do this.

No checkvalve because of the open discharge of the plumbing (the foam brush). Air and fluid find the easiest exit, so everything goes down the bay supply hose.

No foamers in my system for 10 years or more...I can make shaving cream!

I use push-to-connect fittings and poly tubing on EVERYTHING. (No hose barbs or clamps required) A bit more expensive initially but I don't need any tools to assemble or disassemble stuff. A rare, damaged poly line can be replaced in seconds...no screwdriver, nut driver, razor blade...nothing!

1/4" poly tube from all solenoids.
Tee the blowout solenoid outs into the fb air lines... in the eq room
so only 3 tubes/hoses go to each bay.

We can even mod your controller to include the cold weather delay for switch rotators...you'll need one more expansion module. Or, add 4 ICM DelayOnMake timers.

I'll post pictures tonight...SWEET!

 

[MEP001]

No checkvalve because of the open discharge of the plumbing (the foam brush). Air and fluid find the easiest exit, so everything goes down the bay supply hose.

A foam brush system with a Procon pump controlled by a multiplexer would have little resistance to air or liquid pressure pushing back into a tank, so a check valve somewhere would be necessary.

 

[2Biz]

A foam brush system with a Procon pump controlled by a multiplexer would have little resistance to air or liquid pressure pushing back into a tank, so a check valve somewhere would be necessary.

Wouldn't the FB solenoids offer some resistance since they are between the Procon pump and where the Washer Fluid is tee'd in above the bay? How can the washer fluid be forced back down the FB soap line and past the solenoid? At that point the Procon pump wouldn't be on and all FB solenoids will be closed. The only place for the washer fluid and air to go would be out the FB hose to the bay.

 

[2Biz]

We can even mod your controller to include the cold weather delay for switch rotators...you'll need one more expansion module. Or, add 4 ICM DelayOnMake timers.

I'll post pictures tonight...SWEET!

I'm seriously considering this. Which ICM Delay Timer do you use? PexSupply has them pretty cheap. They have the ICM102 for $6.25 ea. and the ICM105 for $10.15 ea. They both look identical to me?


I'm thinking there are other places where these delay timers would be useful...

 

[MEP001]

Wouldn't the FB solenoids offer some resistance since they are between the Procon pump and where the Washer Fluid is tee'd in above the bay? How can the washer fluid be forced back down the FB soap line and past the solenoid? At that point the Procon pump wouldn't be on and all FB solenoids will be closed. The only place for the washer fluid and air to go would be out the FB hose to the bay.

It depends on how much pressure/volume is used to purge the line. It will always take the path of least resistance - a solenoid offers very little resistance to flow in the wrong direction if there's no pressure on the other side. It's basically a check valve that's pulled open to allow the "checked" pressure to flow. A Procon pump offers almost no resistance to backflow at all.

If I did what you're talking about, I wouldn't need to add any check valves because the FloJet pump dead-heads against the solenoid with 45 PSI (and the FloJet has its own check valves to prevent backflow).

 

[Earl Weiss]

Seems the thread got sidetracked from Coleman shampooer to FB.

Anyway, a guy once told me I didn't need winter formula shampoo because the units had heaters and a blowdown cycle. Asked him , "You know what happens when the heater doesn't work or the power fails, and it's freezing and you don't use winter shampoo?" I start adding winter Shampoo October 1. Then another gallon Nov. 1, and another Dec. 1.

Cheap insurance as opposed to freezing and cracking a tank. Guess how I know?

 

[cantbreak80]

Seems the thread got sidetracked from Coleman shampooer to FB.
QUOTE]

Yeah...so I started a new one.

 

[cantbreak80]

"You know what happens when the heater doesn't work or the power fails, and it's freezing and you don't use winter shampoo?"

Excellent point EW.
So I'm thinking...
Since my unit now runs off the CW compressor, maybe I could power-failure-freeze-protect it with a change to a normally open air solenoid...wired to the NC relay contacts. Then, when a power failure occurs, the machine automatically blows out...

...and drains ALL the air from the compressor

Nevermind

 

[Earl Weiss]

Excellent point EW.
So I'm thinking...
Since my unit now runs off the CW compressor, maybe I could power-failure-freeze-protect it with a change to a normally open air solenoid...wired to the NC relay contacts. Then, when a power failure occurs, the machine automatically blows out...

...and drains ALL the air from the compressor

Nevermind

Even a more sophisticated system wouldn't drain the reservoir which could still freeze and crack.