FloJet Question

[Earl Weiss]

Okay.... I guess I will ask the question....

What is the reason for all the effort to use an air flojet pump? The air flojet with a controller, solenoid and engineering time.... all that cost makes the flojet pump an expensive setup. An electrical pump might cost double but it eliminates problems? So why is the air pump better?

I am interested in the positive qualities of air flojets.... Plus I believe the flojets use to be cheaper.... Back in the day.

I think it is 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If you only send electricity to the electrical pump when it is needed the same thing that sends te juice to that pump could open the solenoid that provides air to the pump. No difference in cost or engineering for the setup.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I figured I'd eventually have that happen and add a solenoid for the air, but so far the worst I've gotten is a slow drip from the foam brush, so slow that it takes five minutes for the pump to cycle.

Ditto--- So far.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I know that motors, controllers, relays, PLCs, and whatnot are pretty simple to guys like Mep, Eric, and 2Biz, but most of those setups are over the head of many operators, including me. Flojets and air are quite easy to set up, diagnose, and service, which makes them very enticing to the average Joe.

 

[2Biz]

Ah, come on I.B. I think I've read posts of yours where you have stuff like this in place! Does a solenoid on the water supply to your float tanks ring a bell?!?!?!?

But your right, its really not simple. It just takes some research to study it and figure it out. Plus if you need help, its usually only a post or phone call away! Ask me how I know that one!

I have 3 flojets in service. All dead headed against solenoids. I've owned the wash for 3 years now and have never had to replace one plus I have no idea how long ago the FB and PS flojets were installed. I've only had 1 FB solenoid leak by that would take several days to fill the hose in the er....So adding the air solenoid would not be high on the list. If it ain't broke don't fix it! At worst, I'd loose 5 gallons of FB soap/Pre-soak....Not 55 gallons! So every situation is different.

 

[MEP001]

A cheaper and just as effective way of controlling the air solenoid would be to use a series of relays with outputs all connected to the solenoid. I've found Ebay to be a very good source for relays and bases....

I've started doing that too. A multiplexer is about $100, but a bank of six relays is about $40. With practically no load on them they should last almost forever. I buy them from mouser.com.

 

[mjwalsh]

A cheaper and just as effective way of controlling the air solenoid would be to use a series of relays with outputs all connected to the solenoid. I've found Ebay to be a very good source for relays and bases....

2Biz,

I have found that mounting some of the thinner screwless Phoenix relays on a 35mm din rail to be worthwhile ... when space is a consideration. We have also seen where ferrules can make the terminals more fail safe against a loose connection.

Mike Walsh http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Ah, come on I.B. I think I've read posts of yours where you have stuff like this in place! Does a solenoid on the water supply to your float tanks ring a bell?!?!?!?

Yes it does, but that was an idea I got right here. Doing it the easiest way (through the motor starters) was about the extent of my capabilties. I decided it would be better if I could control an air solenoid to kill the Flojets, using the input from the bay switch. I wasn't smart enough to do that and paid someone else.

 

[2Biz]

I use the Idec RH1B-U relay and SH1B-05 base. They are the slim/midget Din rail mounted kind. Similar to these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-7-IDEC-...853?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a99a4945

The contacts are good for 10 amps...Not bad for a little relay. The SPDT relay has a normally open and normally closed contact. it can be wired either way. They work really good for isolating circuits.

 

[2Biz]

To show you how easy it is…Here’s a crude drawing and explanation. This example controls an air solenoid to the FB Flojet for a 4 bay. More or less bays and you will need more or less relays accordingly! Basically you connect the FB + and - connections in the control box from each bay to the coil of the corresponding relay as shown. Find a 24vac power source, I like to install a different one than the bay transformers to keep everything isolated and seperated. Connect a wire off one side of the transformer to all 4 NO contacts on the relay as shown. Then connect all 4 outputs to your solenoid as shown. To finish up, take the 2nd wire from the solenoid and connect it to the other side of the transformer. Since your only energizing coils, polarity isn’t an issue. That is how to isolate inputs from the bays to a single solenoid using relays.

 

[MEP001]

Same thing I do.

 

[JGinther]

Nothing but food for thought: So when the coil shorts out on the inlet solenoid, and no customers get the product; is the customer walk-off cheaper than the chemical lost when the outlet solenoid sticks open on a dead-head system? Who really knows - depends on how much soap was in the bucket I guess, or if you were on vacation when it happened. I guess if all things are considered equal, then I go by the old addage: Perfection in engineering is not achieved when the last part was added; rather, when the last part was removed.

 

[cwguy.com]

Nothing but food for thought: So when the coil shorts out on the inlet solenoid, and no customers get the product; is the customer walk-off cheaper than the chemical lost when the outlet solenoid sticks open on a dead-head system? Who really knows - depends on how much soap was in the bucket I guess, or if you were on vacation when it happened. I guess if all things are considered equal, then I go by the old addage: Perfection in engineering is not achieved when the last part was added; rather, when the last part was removed.

Two words..... "Procon pump" LOL Thank me later.... or click the "thanks" button now? 5 years was enough for me using a flojet.

 

[MEP001]

Two words..... "Procon pump" LOL Thank me later.... or click the "thanks" button now? 5 years was enough for me using a flojet.

I have FloJets that have been in service for more than five years. In my experience (and it's quite extensive), people that have had bad luck with FloJets did something wrong to make them not last. A bad air regulator letting the pressure creep up over 100 PSI, debris from the tank because there's no strainer, moisture and oil in the air, soap backing up into the air lines from another system, failed check valves in the bay with nothing to relieve the backpressure, even plugging them in and lying them on their back on a shelf when it states clearly to mount them upright.

 

[cwguy.com]

I have FloJets that have been in service for more than five years. In my experience (and it's quite extensive), people that have had bad luck with FloJets did something wrong to make them not last.

Oh having always on pumps is a bad idea..... so you are correct..... purchased them is a terrible idea. I agree. No one told me otherwise.

 

[Robert2181]

I have to agree with (mep01). I have at least 30 floJets in service with 6 bays (11 floJets) 160' tunnel (9 floJets), quick lube & tire bay (6 floJets).

And by the way I or any of my employees can replace one in about 1 to 15 minutes.

I replace maybe on a bad year 2 per yr. Even if I had replace all of them each year ($68.00 ea.) And keep 20 in stock . I try to do my best and not do it on a cheap way.

But lets be real.

 

[cwguy.com]

It really doesn't matter to me what people use? I don't own procon stock (or whatever the cheaper brand is)! But I am surprised how hyper cheap people are. I did it also.... so no comments. The only reason I didn't switch earlier was I needed to purchase a x10 controller. But apparently I didn't have to! But the relays actually don't save you that much money unless you get the relays cheap. But I have 20 or more relays for some reason in my basement?

But the over engineering of this pump is amazing.... it should also help drastically. I also think people have evolved with this pump because this is the first I have heard of any of this.

My point originally was I wouldn't recommend this pump to the average owner (which was the question). It will burn you. I also mounted it on the wall with the fancy flojet wall mount.... which is actually nice. But the aliens will attack and it will cost you money. Could you recommend this pump with all these add ons.... sure but why not an electric flojet? I don't know.... those are cheap?

Also my Dad use to use flojets in his tunnel.... having a location with someone there all the time is different.

 

[MEP001]

It really doesn't matter to me what people use?

Then why do you keep coming back posting paragraphs about why Procons are better?

But I am surprised how hyper cheap people are.

I don't use FloJets because they're cheap. I use them mainly because I've found them to work reliably.

The only reason I didn't switch earlier was I needed to purchase a x10 controller. But apparently I didn't have to! But the relays actually don't save you that much money unless you get the relays cheap. But I have 20 or more relays for some reason in my basement?

The X10 controllers sometimes fail. Good-quality relays are both cheaper and highly unlikely to go bad if they aren't carrying a load, and if one in a bank does fail it can be replaced for less than $5 instead of replacing a ~$100 controller (and obviously a lot more easily).

My point originally was I wouldn't recommend this pump to the average owner (which was the question). It will burn you.

I've seen the many pics you post on your site of burst tubing lines. It happens because you have check valve problems and no place for the high-pressure to release except damaging something. Even poly tubing has a burst rating of 400 PSI. If you put a FloJet in that situation, that back-pressure is eventually going to get to the pump and potentially damage it. So I maintain that it's your fault the FloJets you tried failed.

 

[2Biz]

The way I see it, there may be some applications where one could be better than the other. In my Er, I have 2 procon pumps and 3 flojets. The flojets pump Fb, PS, and washer fluid. All are set to 60psi air or less. The Procons I use are on the SFR system and Tri-Foam. The one on SFR boosts city pressure to 190psi to push water through the membrane and my Tri-Foam pump is set on about 80psi...

So maybe each could have its place based on volume and pressure your trying to obtain. I haven't had any of the pumps fail in 3 years I've owned the wash. So I'm not caught up in trying to figure out which is better than the other. They all work the way they should.

 

[cwguy.com]

As for how long anything last.... Seems like everyone might have an agenda? I had no idea this was so bad. It might be hard to judge? I know with the motor setup on ss chemicals I haven't had a stainless or brass pump die in 5 years. But I had a motor die.... But the pumping station was used and who knows how old it was/is?

Plus of course stuff breaks.... There is no need to argue this? Solid state relays are rated higher. But paying retail for 2biz's relays cost $15 without a rail or housing. Which if your not surplusing everything makes it hard to save money.

Mep1.... You remind me of my mother. It's fine you commented on my flojet pictures 5 years ago. You probably learned a lot since then.... I know I have. Or you didn't want to help me.... Until now? Which is fine also. Either way I think you should get the last word.... Or not?

 

[MEP001]

As for how long anything last.... Seems like everyone might have an agenda? I had no idea this was so bad. It might be hard to judge?

Huh?

Plus of course stuff breaks.... There is no need to argue this?

You're the only one arguing. I've mostly been answering questions, almost all of which are yours.

Solid state relays are rated higher. But paying retail for 2biz's relays cost $15 without a rail or housing. Which if your not surplusing everything makes it hard to save money.

It would be ridiculous to use a bank of expensive relays instead of a controller. The ones I use cost less than $10 each with the base new from mouser.com. If I were switching a motor like that, I'd switch an additional relay to take the load, probably one with an on-delay to save wear from the motor kicking on briefly each time the function was passed on the rotary switch.

Mep1.... You remind me of my mother. It's fine you commented on my flojet pictures 5 years ago. You probably learned a lot since then.... I know I have. Or you didn't want to help me.... Until now? Which is fine also. Either way I think you should get the last word.... Or not?

I'm sure I tried to, but after a number of times replying to your stuff with advice and getting no sort of response at all, I figured it's just a blog and you probably weren't looking for help.