Floor Heat boiler puked...replacement options?

[spf8298]

A couple years ago I thought our Weil-McLain CG5 boiler puked, but it was a leaking fitting that we replaced. However, this time she's gone for good. I had a local contractor quite us to replace it and he quoted between $9 and $10000 depending on the efficiency we wanted. I know it sounds cliche, but this seems high to me. To purchase the same boiler on supply house, it is around $3000 just for the unit. So $6-$7000 for labor?

Anyway, our carwash is a 3 bay self service with an IBA. We use the boiler with glycol to heat the floor. I'm looking for some input on a replacement and also whether this estimate is legit. Any help would be appreciated. In the meantime, I'm going to get a second opinion.

Shaun

 

[New Washdog]

If your replacing just the boiler with the exact same make and model the price seems a little steep. But if its not like for like and other work is required than maybe not. A few years back we spent far more than that on boiler replacement but we now have a seriously efficient dual boiler setup that monitors outdoor and pad temperature, moisture on the pad, and also regulates based on weather forecasts.

 

[cantbreak80]

What happened to the boiler? Cracked? Hole in the section(s)?

 

[MEP001]

FWIW plumbers like to do a few jobs and make a bundle off each one. I had a customer call me once, almost in tears, because his boiler storage tank sprung a bad leak, and a plumber said it was going to cost something like $6000, and they needed a month to get the tank. He only called to see how he could run his wash because he thought he was down, the plumbers didn't know how to bypass the boiler with the valves I had built it with. We had a tank in stock, I told him I'd be there in an hour, and had his hot water back on in less than two, only unscrewed fittings and unions because I plumbed it and had planned for easy tank replacement. Total including travel was less than $1000, customer super happy.

So yeah, that $6-7000 labor is a joke. They'll probably get that boiler cheaper than the Supply House price.

 

[spf8298]

What happened to the boiler? Cracked? Hole in the section(s)?

It's cracked and leaking.

 

[Waxman]

I know with my RayPak boilers, every part is replaceable. My burner tray was replaced on my floor heat boiler, as was the gas valve. I think a relay or 2 was also replaced. The heat exchanger was cleaned and it works like new.

The point is that I came to realize, with the help of friends who teach me this stuff, that alot of the car wash equipment is not very complicated. I get skittish when I have a problem on equipment I haven't dug into too deeply before. But once someone shows me how to do something, I get the confidence to work on it myself rather than call in a contractor.

Find out what is cracked and leaking. Then price the part and go from there. Not everything is worth fixing, but sometimes it's not as bad as you think.

Plumbers like to throw big, round numbers at jobs. Don't let that scare you. It can pay off to look into it more deeply yourself.

 

[2Biz]

Waxman is right. Check out this thread to see if it gives you a different approach than replacing your system the way it was installed 20-30 years ago.

Tankless Water Heater For Floor Heat

Anybody care to share information about using the new style tankless water heaters for floor heat? I need to replace my old Jarco 350K btu money pit with something new and more energy efficient. I’ve been doing some extensive research and comparing different demand heaters, Takagi, Paloma...

www.carwashforum.com

 

[soapy]

I installed a high efficient Ray pak 3 years ago with new pumps etc. and it cost mem 16K which I thought was high. 6 years ago a regualr Ray Pak at another location with new pumps was around 8K.

 

[spf8298]

Our current boiler is 80% efficient and non condensing, so I think getting the efficiency up to 90+ and having it be a condensing boiler is going to be worth it. I just want to make sure I'm not getting screwed on labor. I have another outfit giving me a quote. I'll see what it comes in at.

The first outfit quoted me a NTI Trinity Firetube high efficiency boiler. Model TFT154, 154K BTU boiler. So it is a step up from what I have.

 

[cantbreak80]

I believe the CG5 is an atmospheric cast iron boiler. Not my favorite for floor heating.

A properly installed firetube ModCon can achieve 90+ efficiency, with primary/secondary plumbing, a system pump, PVC air/venting, outdoor reset, and condensate neutralizer.

Lots of material and labor for the conversion so yeah...$6-7K for time and materials sounds about right.

There's also significant time spent for commissioning, combustion analysis and ODR adjustment. Knowledge, training, special tools, and installation warranties come at a cost. Oh yeah, have you seen the price of copper fittings and propylene glycol lately? Yikes!

 

[spf8298]

I believe the CG5 is an atmospheric cast iron boiler. Not my favorite for floor heating.

A properly installed firetube ModCon can achieve 90+ efficiency, with primary/secondary plumbing, a system pump, PVC air/venting, outdoor reset, and condensate neutralizer.

Lots of material and labor for the conversion so yeah...$6-7K for time and materials sounds about right.

There's also significant time spent for commissioning, combustion analysis and ODR adjustment. Knowledge, training, special tools, and installation warranties come at a cost. Oh yeah, have you seen the price of copper fittings and propylene glycol lately? Yikes!

Yes. Glycol is nuts. I'm the president of our local school board and we installed a new HVAC system at our elementary school and it's a '2 pipe' system with glycol. I couldn't believe the cost when we went to fill it up with glycol.

 

[Roz]

Two years ago we replaced the glycol in a wash floor system for about $40/5gal bucket. We are doing another wash renovation and the same glycol bucket is selling for $170. We opted for highest grade antifreeze (undiluted) instead which seems to work just as well as the glycol mix (50/50) at $5/gal.

 

[MEP001]

I bought some copper pipe right before the 2021 freeze. It was $12 for a 10' stick of 1" L at Home Depot. It's $54 now.

 

[bert79]

We have loved our condensing Lochinvar Knight Wall Hung Boiler. Super efficient. We also have a 3ss 1iba and the gas bill is reasonable even when it's 10 degrees outside everything stays ice/snow free and the auto stays warm enough too with the doors down. The boiler modulates so precisely. It is super efficient.

 

[2Biz]

Waxman is right. Check out this thread to see if it gives you a different approach than replacing your system the way it was installed 20-30 years ago.

Tankless Water Heater For Floor Heat

Anybody care to share information about using the new style tankless water heaters for floor heat? I need to replace my old Jarco 350K btu money pit with something new and more energy efficient. I’ve been doing some extensive research and comparing different demand heaters, Takagi, Paloma...

www.carwashforum.com

You guys must have "Deep" pockets! I'm a little more budget minded as long as it works! My Takagi modulating/condensing wall mount heater has been in service now for 10 years and not a single issue....Hardest part of the whole system is flipping 2 switches to turn it on in the fall. Keeps bays Ice Free down to a tested -16° below zero without doors....A complete new exact replacement is $1235 from Supply house and is a drop in....Can't believe its not even part of this discussion!

 

[MEP001]

-16° below zero

Isn't that a double negative?

 

[Overachiever]

Hardest part of the whole system is flipping 2 switches to turn it on in the fall.

I have mine on smart plugs now.. lol. That way I can turn it off from home if it's getting warm out.

 

[cantbreak80]

I have mine on smart plugs now.. lol. That way I can turn it off from home if it's getting warm out.

From Jan 2019...

See, 2Biz!!!!!

I told you we'd soon be saying, "Hey Seri, close bays 3 & 4 down until further notice."

 

[2Biz]

From Jan 2019...

See, 2Biz!!!!!

I told you we'd soon be saying, "Hey Seri, close bays 3 & 4 down until further notice."

Ha! Yes you did! I'm still not caving to get something that also spy's on me 24-7! So I will keep doing it the old way!

Plus I like the old automated method of letting the Weepmiser do the work of turning it on/off at 32°....Doesn't waiste any $$$ in case you get busy or forget to look at your phone or be around a PC....Sometimes "Old School" really isn't that bad!

 

[Rudy]

2Biz....I never understood how you got around using a water heater as a boiler. Most regulatory bodies do not allow this. Physically, and mechanically, I understand what you've done. My wash is in a suburb of a larger metropolitan city....and they ONLY allow boilers to be used in hydronic floor heating systems.

Is the way to beat these guys....involve using something that's less than 199K BTU's?