Foam Brush Chemical Consumption (To High!!!)

[Rfreeman]

I have a busy 6 bay self serve car wash. Pump stand is Jim Coleman Super Saver connected by 1" city main water line. On Friday 3/25 I put a new bucket of foam brush soap online and by Sunday morning 3/27 it was all but gone, it had about 3 to 4" of soap left in it. This isn't normal is it?

The soap is from a local supplier up here in Dallas, Baker Equipment, on the label they recommend 90:1 dilution ratio (yellow) tip. I had a purple tip in place over the weekend which is even less so I still can't figure out how I went through the entire bucket in 2 days. I tipped it down to a pink tip which is the last one before closing it off completely and my foam brush was too runny so I tipped it back to a purple tip.

I checked the hyrdrominder it seems to be fine, any suggestions on what could cause it to consume so much soap in 2 days? Foam brush seems to be the only chemical it did this to over the weekend.

My product is set at 60 psi and air is set at 30 psi which puts out a lot of foam out of the brush onto the car but it has been this way since I remodeled and reopened the wash.

Thanks!

 

[MEP001]

The product pressure is way too high, but that doesn't explain the sudden increase in usage. I usually set Coleman systems up at about 30 on the liquid and 20-25 on the air if it has the original foamers. Too much pressure will blow the foamer material out of the foamer.

Have you checked to make sure there isn't a bay running liquid only with another bay running?

One wash I work with has the lines running underground to the bays. I noticed last night that one has pink liquid coming up out of the pipe.

 

[Rfreeman]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I know it's high I'll prbly turn it down. This was was my first remodel so I made the foamers and your right it blew the material out of it eventually. Today I worked on replacing 2 foamers where the material blew out down the line.

I'll check what you said about a runny bay but I still can't believe almost an entire 5 gallon bucket of soap on a purple tip!

 

[Rfreeman]

I turned on all the bays and none of them is running any liquid out of the foam brush. I also change the psi to what you mentioned but unfortunately the foam came to a complete stop! I settled on about 40 psi on liquid and 25 psi on the air with pretty good results.

Im thinking it has to do with the city water pressure dropping when all the bays are running. Off of the main 1" main line I have a T to rinse solenoids, the hot water tank (I am not using hot water), and the last T going to the mixing tank manifold. My thought is when a few of the bays are on rinse maybe the water pressure drops enough to create suction at the hydrominder but not where it needs to be to keep the dilution ratio in line, thoughts?

 

[cantbreak80]

By-pass the water softener to see if the Hydominder(s) work better.
If so, it's an indication that the softener needs to be re-bedded.

 

[Rfreeman]

Thanks for the idea CB80 I've had that before at another wash but not this one because I don't have a softener yet.

Shut it down to remodel and got in a hurry to open it back up so I opened without one.

I'm going to take a video of the flow in the tank to see what you guys think.

I know the psi was high before but it's been like that since I re opened and I have never gone through a 5 gal bucket in 2 days

 

[MEP001]

I'm sure that weak water pressure would cause you to use less soap.

Are you still running a Procon?

Is it possible an employee stole the soap? I've seen it happen.

 

[Rfreeman]

That was my first guess but I wasn't sure.

Yes I have procon pumps connected

Hell at this point if you guys can't give me an answer then that's what it had to be because I'm out of ideas......

 

[Earl Weiss]

Any chance someone messed with the Purple Tip and cleaned it enlarging the opening?

 

[Rfreeman]

Any chance someone messed with the Purple Tip and cleaned it enlarging the opening?

Thank you for chiming in Earl. So my first thought was the tip was larger than necessary because it has been a while since I looked at it. To answer your question I personally inspected it and compared it to another Purple tip and they look to be identical.

Im at a loss but thinking maybe the higher psi settings and the amount of business we did caused it, only because I don't know what else it would be. However, I don't think we were any busier than normal for this time of year.

 

[MEP001]

I don't believe the higher pressure would make it draw too much soap. The Hydrominder has an operating pressure range. If it's too low, it won't draw enough soap. If it's too high, the valve won't open.

I have no idea what else to look for. Is it a color soap that would have left a stain on the floor if the Hydrominder hung open and overfilled your product down the drain?

I had a mystery issue with my bay soap tank overfilling with water and diluting the soap, I checked everything I could think of every day for two weeks and never found anything, and it eventually self-corrected. Still don't know what it was.

 

[Rfreeman]

Well I've come to the conclusion either my Mon- Thurs or Fri - Sun guy stole the soap. We were slammed busy this past weekend and I have been marking the bucket daily and we consumed almost an inch on the bucket.

If you guys can't tell me any other plausible way the soap could gone down that much then the only alternative is one of them stole it. I am adding a camera in order to capture that side of the equipment room.

Thanks for the ideas

 

[MC3033]

Do you have a relay or solenoid that could be sticking ?

 

[MEP001]

Do you have a relay or solenoid that could be sticking ?

A stuck relay might make the pump run, but it wouldn't lose soap. A stuck solenoid in one bay would lose soap while another bay is running, but it would be minimal.

The only other plausible thing I can think of would be the Hydrominder hanging open and then self-correcting, or one of your guys might have jiggled the float and unstuck it. Is there any sign of an overflow? Some of the Coleman stands I've seen have solid PVC from the overflows to a drain.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Why would anyone steal a couple gallons out of a bucket? What would they possibly do with it? It was a busy weekend. I use quite a bit on busy weekends.

Are you using Rasberry Foam Brush? If so, they offer it in 30-gallon drums. Thats how I get it.

 

[Rfreeman]

Why would anyone steal a couple gallons out of a bucket? What would they possibly do with it? It was a busy weekend. I use quite a bit on busy weekends.

Are you using Rasberry Foam Brush? If so, they offer it in 30-gallon drums. Thats how I get it.

That's why I say to myself a lot being in the car wash business. I can't think of any other plausible explanation. I purchased this location a year and half ago and shut it down for a rehab. Since reopening business has increased every month but burning through almost the entire 5 gallon bucket from business on a Fri and all day Sat, that hasn't happened to me yet until now.

I always have a backup onsite and my warehouse is 7 mins door to door so I haven't gone the 30 gallon or 15 gallon drum route yet. Is the Rasberry Foam Brush from Baker or who? I am using the Blue Foam Brush part# 151 from Baker, Dallas. On the label they recommend a Yellow tip but I am running a Purple one with good results.

 

[Rfreeman]

A stuck relay might make the pump run, but it wouldn't lose soap. A stuck solenoid in one bay would lose soap while another bay is running, but it would be minimal.

The only other plausible thing I can think of would be the Hydrominder hanging open and then self-correcting, or one of your guys might have jiggled the float and unstuck it. Is there any sign of an overflow? Some of the Coleman stands I've seen have solid PVC from the overflows to a drain.

Yes sir I know what you are talking about Mep and honestly I forgot to check that but was planning on it today. I am very OCD when it comes to having the floor clean and dry inside the pump room for the sole reason to identify leaks quickly and easily by stains on the ground.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Rasberry Foam Brush from Baker or who? I am using the Blue Foam Brush part# 151 from Baker, Dallas. On the label they recommend a Yellow tip but I am running a Purple one with good results.

Yes, the Rasberry FB is from Baker. I don't recall what tip I'm using.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Something I once did, when a salesman gave me a 5 gallon pail to try. I set it right on top of the multi-compartment tank and hooked the hose up. I didn't give any thought to the fact that it was now above the hydrominder. Needless to say, it siphoned the whole bucket overnight. Is there any chance that someone did something similar with yours?

 

[MEP001]

Something I once did, when a salesman gave me a 5 gallon pail to try. I set it right on top of the multi-compartment tank and hooked the hose up. I didn't give any thought to the fact that it was now above the hydrominder. Needless to say, it siphoned the whole bucket overnight. Is there any chance that someone did something similar with yours?

I forgot about that possibility. It's not likely with a Coleman Super Saver stand because of how high the tanks are, but that would certainly do it.