Foam Brush freeze up. Only one though. Thoughts?

[MDrost1]

This will most likely be my last post for the day : ).
I have been having regular foam brush freeze up when the temp gets down to 20 degrees. The kicker: only one brush freezes. The one farthest from the equipment room. All other brushes work fine. We have been running a new drum of methanol soap. We get good air to soap ratio out there. There doesn't seem to be any leaks and we are running the beige tip.

I am at a loss on this one. IF you have any ideas, I'd be grateful!

 

[chaz]

Have you purged the line at the far bay?
Is the far bay from brush against an outside wall?
It there a cracked or leaking hose as it connects to the brush handle, thus leaking the antifreeze before it gets to brush head?
Is there a kink in the line that reduces flow to the brush head?

All are issues I have had.

 

[MDrost1]

It seems to be freezing into the chase way. I repaired the line for leaks last week. We have a change over system from summer to winter soap. Yes, there was methanol soap in it last night. It is on a far wall.

I did notice the flojet pump leaks. It is a very small leak but it is leaking the red looking soap for the fb. Could this dilute it enough for a freeze up?

 

[2Biz]

The problem is likely in the way your change-over works. When the system changes over to methanol soap, you still have regular soap in the tank that is not 100% methanol soap. So, your methanol soap is diluted with water until you use enough FB to have all methanol soap in the tank. The only way I see this can work is if you drain the FB tank when it switches over and purge all the lines. But then its not an automated system anymore...There is a way to automate the purge using solenoids that control the Methanol flojet...But you'd have to make sure yours is set up to do this.

You say its freezing in the trough....Do you heat the trough? BTW.. .A beige tip should get you down to about 10° I believe...

 

[MDrost1]

Yes, the trough is heated. Old tape though. When we hit 32 degrees or so our change over system switches tanks. We have one tank for summer and one for winter. It switches to winter and purges the line. This is my understanding.

 

[Randy]

I think your problem is when the system changes over to the anti-freeze foam brush soap the last bay doesn’t get purged long enough to flush out the regular foam brush soap. Can you make it purge longer on the furthest bay?

 

[MDrost1]

Randy, we are going to give that a shot. Thanks!!

 

[2Biz]

I believe Randy nailed it!

Sometimes more information helps up front. There are some switchovers out there that switch chemicals to the hydrominder and mixes into the same tank. These can be an issue. KR sells one. https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-2108-dual-chemical-kit.aspx

It sounds like yours is set up properly. Just need to increase purge time like Randy suggested.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

I too agree with Randy.
But why not try mixing 2/3 windshield washer fluid to 1/3 fb soap as your regular fb soap.
Maybe this would help your system from freezing when it purges before switching over to methanol soap.
Just a thought.

 

[MDrost1]

What kind of washer fluid? Any specific type?

 

[Randy]

I think it would be easier to lengthen the amount of time the changeover system purges. Any -22 deg. washer fluid, but you’ll have to use a lot of it because it’s already diluted with water.

 

[MEP001]

What kind of washer fluid? Any specific type?

You can get washer fluids that protect to 20°, 0° and -20° - I like to mix some into the tank before an overnight freeze and purge the lines, and I get whichever I need depending on how cold it's going to get.

 

[Keith Baker]

If your problem is not a long enough purge you could do what I do. My summer formula is grape colored and my winter formula is cherry. I can easily tell if the winter formula has reached the end brush by the color.

I change them manually based on the forecast and only mix the winter formula to stay loose until about +20 degrees. I put up signs many years ago saying that the brushes may not work under 32 degrees and to try at your own risk. If it gets below about 25 degrees, people aren't using the brush much anyway. They just want hot soapy water to spray the car and get on their way.

Just my $.02

Keith

 

[MDrost1]

Ok. So the saga continues. Here's what I have done. Changed the purge time to 136secs. 50% more time than before. Checked for leaks. No leaks. Went back last night and ran it before it got cold. Made sure there was winter soap inline. Affirmative. Beige tip down to 10 degrees. Heat tape does not make it to the end of the trough about 8 ft before it terminates to the bay. Still froze up!!! It is a mystery. Any thoughts???? Thanks gents.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

When I had an IBA I had my system purge for 30 seconds on, off, on for 5 times.
Then it went on and off for 15 seconds for 5 more times.
I did not use any kind of methanol or wiper fluid at time but it did not freeze. You might want to try this.
Maybe if you can inject either fluids in your last purges it won't freeze.

 

[cantbreak80]

Maybe the "summer soap" is freezing in the trough before your system purges.
Try changing the purge set point to 40 degrees for testing purposes. If THAT works, then gradually lower the set point until it doesn't.

 

[MDrost1]

Good point. Could it be the liquid solenoid on the fb manifold?

 

[cantbreak80]

Well...I dunno. Every "system" is a bit different. Some are totally manual. Some use air-blow out. Some inject anti-freeze. Some blow out and inject. Some are add-on...some are integrated. Some are factory built...some are "tinkerer" built.

Maybe you could give a little insight as to how your system works?
Who built the system?
Does it use one or two foam brush solution tank(s)?
Does it automatically change over to winter foam and then purge the supply lines?
What controls the change over...a thermostat? A WeepMizer? It's own sensor?
Does the soap pump (FloJet) occasionally pump when the car wash is idle?
Can you take and post a photo or two?

 

[MDrost1]

Yes. Of course!
The system is thermostatically controlled. It was built by GinSan I believe. Using DEMA solenoids, a few timers etc. When the temp hits 32 degrees the system will purge the lines with "winter soap" that comes from a different tank. Winter and Summer soaps are in different tanks(we have the beige hydrominder tip in now, though the lowest temp we've seen is 17 degrees). The change over system will move to winter soap when it hits 32degrees. Purging the line for 1:30sec.
The Flojet has a little leak, but does not run sporatically. Seems to be in good shape. The flojet, solution tanks, are all run to a 5bay solenoid manifold where the individual solenoids open when a bay selection is activated. Air and Water mixed by regulators at that point.
All other bays operate normally and do not freeze up. Bay 1 which is farthest from the eq room is the only one that does not.

So far we have extended the purge time, replaced the solenoid piston on the soap side of the manifold, new brush hose in bay, new brush head, fixed any leaks two weeks ago in the trough.

It freezes all the way into the trough. Not just the bay. Today was a good one .

I will take pics. Just wanted to get this out...Thanks for all of your help.

Mike

 

[MDrost1]

Oh yeah. I purged it last night myself. About a minute or so extra beyond the normal purge. Was seeing the "pink" soap clearly. Our summer soap is white. Could a faulty solenoid in the manifold dilute or mess with the mixture? Before we changed the solenoid the brush spit air, but still produced foam.