Foam brush plumbing...Attn: 2Biz

[cantbreak80]

2Biz...
This is how I make foam without a foamer...

30 psi air
40 psi FloJet
Could likely turn down the psi if the supply tubing were 3/8" but those "push-to-connect" fittings won't fit on my solenoid manifold blocks.

Here's an example of my FB plumbing in the roof trough with 1/4" poly supply tubing and 3/8" poly outlet tubing to the boom.
View attachment 372

Here's what the FB looks like after 1 minute...four bays from the equipment room.
View attachment 373

 

[cantbreak80]

Oh, and this is how I plumbed the Air Blow Out for the "stolen idea".

The upper manifold block was just added as part of the "system".
The green tubes are teed into the original (blue) FB air tubes ..in this case, the white push-to-connect tees are Watts brand from Home Depot. This method saved me from running a second air tube to each bay.

View attachment 374

 

[2Biz]

Thanks for posting pics of your setup and how you've incorporated your "Idea"! I AM going to do this. Maybe get the FB to the bays converted soon and do the winterizing part this fall.

Just this weekend, a foamer started leaking and the solenoid to the same foamer started leaking by. My "Old" Mark VII" equipment is not even close to being user friendly when it comes to changing out a solenoid. All the solenoids are supplied by 1/2" PVC...And its getting rather brittle to work with. So I'll probably try to at least change the solenoid and start gathering my "Nuts" for the changeover. I need to make this easier to work with...

I do have a question (Or two)...More uncharted territory! I see you are using the Kip Manifold blocks. On the air supply Manifold to the main FB system, do you have individual air pressure regulators to each bay and if so how do you have them connected to the manifold? I would assume you CAN"T just run one regulator to the manifold since you would have pressure drop when more than one bay is in use??? Plus I see you have the the "Metered" style manifolds....Is this the only way you are controlling soap out to the bays? Or are you using some sort of flow meter inline? Like this:

http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-3402-dwyer-flow-meter-non-adjustable.aspx

I would assume the Flojet would keep constant pressure on the manifold even if more than one bay is in use...

 

[cantbreak80]

I have (1) pressure regulator adjusted to 30psi for the air manifold.
I have (1) pressure regulator adjusted to 40psi for the soap pump

The metering valves are wide open on both manifolds. I adjusted the dilution ratio in the soap tank to achieve the desired results. IF I wanted to make an adjustment, I would increase or decrease air pressure to make drier or wetter foam. Unlike the original MarkVII system, one adjustment affects all bays.

Anyway, it’s rare that all bays would be on FB simultaneously…maybe an occasional few minutes, on a busy day where 3 of 8 bays are running FB. IF there’s a drop in pressure, my customers and I would never know…I guess the foam would get a bit runny if that were the case. I don’t worry about it. I’ve never had a customer indicate that they noticed a change in foam consistency half way through their wash cycle.

You’ll be amazed at how trouble free your FB system will be when you re-plumb it and get those solenoids off the PVC manifolds…and the coil wiring out of those poly tubes…and only one air pressure regulator!!!

 

[2Biz]

Thanks CB80...Sometimes I tend to over-engineer and over-think things. At least thats what my wife tells me!

Sounds like you've had experience with Mark VII equipment?!?!?!

I can't wait to get my supplies and make the change to get away from the PVC. I am also going to change the LP pre-soak too. This is not going to take as much time and $$$ as originally anticipated...

HMMM...After I get this done....Now I'm wondering if I can change the soap and Wax over to the Kip Manifolds to get away from the PVC, individual solenoids, and connections? This might require a little more thought.

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW My setup is similar.

I have 2 sets of 4 manifold blocks for 8 bays for the liquid. Seperate flo jet for each of the manifold blocks. All other low pressuree functions use a single flo jet for 8 bays. I just figured with the FB more volume might be needed if more than 4 used FB at one time. With 8 .05 nozzles on the guns the max flo should be 4 GPM which a flo jet can easily handle plus I have air assis for the low pressure functions.

No foamers and no needle valves. One regulator for the FB air supply and 1 for each of the flo jets. Plenty pf room to mix air and liquid to generate foam from above the bay thru 20 plus feet of FB Hose and hamdle and into the brush head. (Erie Hogs Hair.)

 

[2Biz]

It looks like from the pictures you are running 3/8 poly hose out to the boom...How well does the poly hose hold up to the flexing/twisting from the boom? I currently have braided hose and barb fittings out to the tip of the boom. It sure would be nice to convert EVERYTHING to John Guest Push Lock Fittings when I do this and get away from all the different size hose and barb fittings. I'm trying to put my BOM together!

Working on the Mark VII equipment is a pain in the A$$....Took me about 3 hours last night to change out the leaking FB Solenoid...Of course, I had to make up a spare PVC tube to have on hand in case the original decided to fail....

Earl, Thanks for the input! I also use Hogs Hair FB Heads...People look at me kind of funny when I tell them what their made of...

 

[Earl Weiss]

It looks like from the pictures you are running 3/8 poly hose out to the boom...How well does the poly hose hold up to the flexing/twisting from the boom? .....


Earl, Thanks for the input! I also use Hogs Hair FB Heads...People look at me kind of funny when I tell them what their made of...

FWIW I use 3/8 poly from the equip room to the manifold above the bay. From that manifold to the boom is Steel braided hose.

I use the sign Erie has -- I put over the FB holder saying "We use the Finest Erie Hogs hair Brushes.

 

[cantbreak80]

2B

The poly is “stubbed” about 12” below the roof penetration. A coupling and another length of poly tube feeds the boom…long enough to allow free movement of the boom.

My booms are plumbed with a poly elbow at the feed end and a 1/2MPT x 3/8poly elbow at the hose end.

Over the years, I may have had to replace 3 couplings and one or two of the feed tubes.

The customer end of the system gets replaced much more frequently…even with 1/4” 100R1 hoses.

And, who doesn't use Hogs Hair brushes???

 

[Kevin James]

Why do you have 2 hoses going out to the bay for Foam brush? We only have one 3/8” Poly tube going out the bay. The Air and Soap are married in the equipment room and the product gets out to the bay pretty fast. We’ve had problems with the Johnny Guest fittings leaking so we use Poly tube Nut/Sleeve Fitting KR#HF0303

 

[Earl Weiss]

Why do you have 2 hoses going out to the bay for Foam brush? We only have one 3/8” Poly tube going out the bay. The Air and Soap are married in the equipment room and the product gets out to the bay pretty fast. We’ve had problems with the Johnny Guest fittings leaking so we use Poly tube Nut/Sleeve Fitting KR#HF0303

What is the farthest number of bays from the equipment room?

 

[cantbreak80]

Why do you have 2 hoses going out to the bay for Foam brush?

Creating foam directly above the boom is the fastest method for delivery to the customer…especially when the furthest booms are almost 70 feet from the equipment room. When people pay a quarter for 20 seconds, making them wait 30 seconds for product delivery could cause some aggravation.

Nearly every fitting in my car wash is push-to-connect…most are nearly 20 years old. Heck, I even have a garden hose sprayer connected with a push-to-connect and poly tube.

 

[2Biz]

2B

The poly is “stubbed” about 12” below the roof penetration. A coupling and another length of poly tube feeds the boom…long enough to allow free movement of the boom.

My booms are plumbed with a poly elbow at the feed end and a 1/2MPT x 3/8poly elbow at the hose end.

Over the years, I may have had to replace 3 couplings and one or two of the feed tubes.

The customer end of the system gets replaced much more frequently…even with 1/4” 100R1 hoses.

And, who doesn't use Hogs Hair brushes???

That makes total sense....The 3/8 elbow and coupling acts like a swivel. The poly hose doesn't have to twist. Great "Idea"...

To Kevin:

My Spot Free rinse, Tri-foam System, and "Illegal" Washer Fluid Injection System all use John Guest fittings. I haven't had a single failure. What color fitting do you use? I use the PI Grey Acetal Fittings....I don't know if that makes a difference...

 

[Kevin James]

The furthest bay is about 40 or 50 feet from the equipment room. I’ll have the maintenance guys time the amount of time it takes for the foam to hit the bay, I know it’s pretty fast. No one has ever complained about it taking too long.

We’ve had the gray John Quest fittings crack or leak air

 

[Earl Weiss]

The furthest bay is about 40 or 50 feet from the equipment room.

Guessing 3rd bay away?

In some of my Tunnels I have used 1/2" hose to carry foam from the mixing station where the lines merge to the Tunnel. I would guess max 25' from the station to the arch.

For the bays where I have one as 6th from the equipment room, i think it might take too long becuase you have to factor another 25 feet or so before it comes out the brush.

 

[2Biz]

2Biz...
Could likely turn down the psi if the supply tubing were 3/8" but those "push-to-connect" fittings won't fit on my solenoid manifold blocks.

CB80...If you're still tuned in, I'm wondering why the push-to-connect fittings won't fit on the supply to your manifolds? The SMC fittings you recommended have 3/8" tube x 1/4" NPT fittings available. I have some on order, straight and swivel elbows....They will fit the manifiold inlets.....Just wondering?

BTW, I found the push-to-connect fittings for the flojet at KR...Thanks!

 

[MEP001]

BTW, I found the push-to-connect fittings for the flojet at KR...Thanks!

Check the price before you order them. They're too expensive for me.

 

[2Biz]

They are only $8.83 for two....I would think it would make for a cleaner install and easier to service. I will be using the 3/8 fittings attaching to a Kip (4) manifold Solenoid block...

http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-3431-flojet-poly-tube-fitting-38.aspx

 

[cantbreak80]

I believe you will find the 1/4mpt x 3/8poly fittings too close together to swing your wrench when installing them...maybe(?)

An alternative, if you must use 3/8" poly tube to the bays...1/4poly x 3/8poly straight connectors. 1/4 fittings on the manifold followed by the "reducing connectors".

But, since the Kip orifice is only 3/64"(?) the 1/4" fittings/tubing are not going to be the restriction source.

 

[cantbreak80]

I guess I should add...

In the unlikely event you have to replace a 1/4x3/8poly fitting on an assembled Kip manifold, you'll likely have to remove several fittings to gain wrench access to the "naughty one".

1/4x1/4poly fittings eliminates the need to disassemble the assembly to make one repair.

Remember...you're making the system EASIER to work on...right?