Foamy Brush: Weep vs. Methanol~

[Waxman]

Lets have both arguments, please.

Tired of freezing up and it's not even Turkey Day!

My friends weep the foamy brushes, too. Does this make sense over Methanol?

I've also been closing my ss bays at nite because I have doors and someone to close them late, so the bay tepms stay above freezing. Should I move my weep thermostat to the inside of one of the bays? Of course, right? Probably the end or colder bay.

 

[pcb]

Waxman we don't get near as cold as you do but we use air to blow out the liquid line. When the weep comes on it activates the air solenoid to blow out the liquid. We only use just enough air to get the product out, that way someone can still use the foam brush with no problems. After their done it will blow out the line again.

 

[MEP001]

Bubbles Galore just did his up with an antifreeze purge. I think he used windshield washer solvent, but you could purge with methanol foam brush and use regular soap or a weaker methanol mix the rest of the time.

I've already worked out a couple ways to do this with a PLC.

I would assume that with a water weep, it will freeze on the brushes and the bay floor.

 

[Jeff_L]

That's what I was afraid of MEP, weep water freezing on the bristles and or freezing the brush into the bucket. I just installed Windtrax's foam brush freeze system where it circulates hot water through the lines keeping them from freezing. Nice side effect is that your troughs stay warm from the hoses carrying the water.

I took it one step further though, I put it on a closed loop system and am circulating a 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze through the lines. So far it is working well, but I'm sure I'll be paying for it!

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I have had my system running well now for over two weeks, we had several nights below 20 degrees and haven't had a single freeze up. I was going to use washer fluid to purge, I just couldn't make the numbers work. I got a 55 gallon drum of methanol FB and am diluting it at a 7:1 ratio. I am going to have to add a separate set of solenoids to push the methanol through with some air though. I am going through my methanol too quick by just having it sent to the bays with a flojet at about 55 psi. Hopefully that will allow me to drop my pressure to about 30 psi once I have the air solenoids wired in.

 

[soapy]

I would also like to add another possibilty to this argument. What if you hooked up a weepmiser to the foam brush lines to blow air through the foam brush system. Reduce air pressure to about 15 psi with a regulator and then play around with the weep miser settings for on time. That way you could set it to come on a couple of times a minute. I have one system that used a air blow down system for the foamy brushes. It would purge 3 times after a foam brush was used but it still had troubles freezing up because every thing would settle and then freeze. I don't think it would use much air to use a weepmiser and LP air to purge the line a little each minute. Has anone tried this?

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

I had my FB's hooked up to weep. It worked ok, but as it got colder (below 20?) the hogs hair bristles froze, which caused that entire brush to freeze. I tried weeping more water, which helped. But eventually I figured that the FB is used by so many customers, and a relatively high margin item, that I had to stop them from ever freezing. So about 5 years ago I switched to the methanol solution. Works much better for me, methanol would have to get might expensive to get me to switch back.

I've thought about the heat loop system like Jeff mentioned, but that costs $ to run too, so I suspect I wouldnt be saving much compared to the methanol.

I also think about switching to a timed air or "antifreeze" purge, but since the methanol works pretty good and isnt prohibitively expensive yet, I havent pursued it. I do think about it every winter though.

 

[Jeff_L]

You're right about the cost to put it in and the cost to run it. I just cringe thinking about it running while no one is there. However, I'm still a newbie to this industry and only learn my lessons the hard way. I'll learn them by seeing the electric bill coming in over the winter months!

I've thought about using the methanol mix, but I've heard stories about it not foaming up as much as the regular foaming soap. My customers have gotten so used to seeing that shaving cream coming out that I'd hat to change it up now.

Hopefully having the foaming brushes available in the winter time will increase the time people spend in the bays. So many times over the past couple of years people were only able to spray and leave. Also, the side effect (or benefit) is that I've tied the LP lines around the heated lines to make sure those are kept thawed as well.

There are 15+ different ways to keep from freezing, and all of you are very smart in the ways you do it. It's whatever works will work. The best thing is, we all share what we do and have learned which helps all of us redesign, fine tune, redo our current systems to reduce our costs and maximize our revenue. Thanks to everyone!

 

[Earl Weiss]

I use the anti freeze foam brush soap from KR. Above the bay is a manifold for the FB. Three lines, Weep. FB Soap, and air. The weep is run by the same weepmizer as the guns. The FB sits in a plastic conatainer made for them but I made a hole in the side to let the water out and keep customers from using accumulated water to wash with. The is connected to the wall but sits on the floor so the FB picks up heat from the weep water and the floor heat which minimizes ice on the brush. At -25 degrees and below I weep hot water.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

At -25 degrees and below I weep hot water.

Earl, is that minus 25 degrees? Heck, I'm closed long before that!

In fact, thats the main reason I've considered plumbing in an air purge: I've been closing when it gets below 10 or 15 degrees; all I get is a few ice/snow dumpers in that weather anyway. I'd like to purge all the lines when I'm closed, I'd rather not even run the weep at all, not worry about methanol, LP freezing, etc. One of these days I'll figure out a really cheap & easy way to do it. I know I could do it fairly easily manually, but I want easy.

 

[Reds]

I use "winter foam brush" soap from Warsaw all winter and never weep or do anything else to it. It works even below zero. I wouldl like to know how to blow down all of my hp/lp functions that come thru the gun in the bay. Then do away with weep all together. Or maybe find a way to shut off the weep as long as a car is in the bay, turning back on when they leave. Not having to weep would be a tremendous help.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sorry, the -25 means below 25.

My weep does not stop when a car is in the bay, nor do I think it may be a good idea. It does stop when the function is used.

You are right though . Usualy below 20 degrees few cars come in. At below 10, the water turns the car into a giant ice cube.

 

[galen]

Its nice that you can close when it 15 or so, that would not an option for me when I may have 1-12 days straight at that temperature. Jeff pm me your number please. I would like to talk to you about the closed loop system.

 

[bigleo48]

I have been thinking about the brush weep issue for some time. At my site I have a weepmizer that also turns the weep to warm weep when it gets really cold. So I want to find a better solution. To me, these are our options:

1-close bays 2-weep 3-purge (air or methanol\wiper fluid) 4-recycle weep water
5-Close loop

I think that perhaps the best solution is a combo weep (with weepmizer) and purge (methanol\wiper fluid) in my very cold area. A PLC could accomplish this. So during the day, when the foam brush is used more often, weep with weepmizer control and after hours purge to save on WW fluid. I would also have an overide that can be PC controlled remotely. So those really cold days when nobody is washing, I could purge.

I would use this device for remote overide http://www.controlbyweb.com/five-input/index.html

An these micro PLCs to control the purge; http://www.tri-plc.com/e10intro.htm

BigLeo

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Have you started on this yet this year? It sounds like it would be a pretty neat setup. Keep us informed.

 

[bigleo48]

Have you started on this yet this year? It sounds like it would be a pretty neat setup. Keep us informed.

Bubbles,

Not yet...still not convinced it's the best way. Regardless, next year perhaps...just too busy! But it would be a fun project.

BigLeo