Foamy rinse water

[Martins]

Thoughts on why this is happing. Its on all bays, rise water, all soap sels are new, all pumps are new, no leaks, happens randomly. Been on and off for a year like this and its starting to cause complaints. Cant seem to pin point why.
View attachment 69298394884__10098594-B93A-44D3-8F49-AE0E80DBB617.MOV

 

[MEP001]

Taste it to make sure it's not salt.

Some pictures of your equipment room layout might help. I battled a similar problem once, turned out a failed presoak check valve at the boom was letting water back up through the Dosatron pump and back into the lines for the rinse. I finally figured it out after four trips and many, many hours of running everything and finally saw the liquid in the Dosatron was no longer blue. Unlikely to be your problem, but post pictures of everything you can.

 

[traveler17]

Have you seen it when it dries? Is it leaving a film. My spot free was doing the exact same thing in the bays. It looked just like soap but turned out to be air bubbles. It wouldn’t stain though

 

[MEP001]

Have you seen it when it dries? Is it leaving a film. My spot free was doing the exact same thing in the bays. It looked just like soap but turned out to be air bubbles. It wouldn’t stain though

Spot free is usually an easy diagnosis, something getting into the tank contaminating the pure water, usually soap from a bad check valve. His issue is with the high pressure rinse.

Martins, you have an unrelated problem, when the trigger is pulled the pressure at first is very high before it drops down to a normal pressure. You may just have the regulator cranked down beyond what the pump can put out at full flow, but it can also be a sign of a failing regulator.

 

[Martins]

Spot free is usually an easy diagnosis, something getting into the tank contaminating the pure water, usually soap from a bad check valve. His issue is with the high pressure rinse.

Martins, you have an unrelated problem, when the trigger is pulled the pressure at first is very high before it drops down to a normal pressure. You may just have the regulator cranked down beyond what the pump can put out at full flow, but it can also be a sign of a failing regulator.

So this is happening on every bay, all pressures set to 1200 water temp 120. Here is a pic of the pump stand, and a video of the water the next day.. foamy ess is almost non existent. This seems to be doing this randomly… hold on the forum wont allow the uploads.

 

[Martins]

View attachment Video.mov

 

[Randy]

Years ago when we had gravity fed rinse tanks we had check valves on the tank to prevent any water back feeding to the rinse tank.

 

[MEP001]

Since you have hot water, are there solenoids to supply cold water for rinse? It doesn't look like there is. You can probably solve this issue by adding a 1/2" check valve for each pump at the barb from the tank. My guess would be one of the bay pumps is letting a low pressure option back through the line.

 

[Martins]

Since you have hot water, are there solenoids to supply cold water for rinse? It doesn't look like there is. You can probably solve this issue by adding a 1/2" check valve for each pump at the barb from the tank. My guess would be one of the bay pumps is letting a low pressure option back through the line.

Interesting.. so no, we use hot water for everything including rinse, the tank is fed from the hot water heaters, grav/vacuum fed to pumps. the pumps only have high pressure soap and wax fed through them/ on the same line as the holding tank. all LP systems are separate tanks/ lines to manifolds above the bays. nothing is merged until it hits the boom above the bay. at first i thought it was a valve seal issue, then i replaced all the pumps (not updated in photo) and issue is still present, and more so since it got colder out. (maybe unrelated). i thought check valve as well on something but as stated its present in all bays, my next thought was due to hard city water? (no softener system) the foam doesn't seem to be soapy or filmy. just bubbly, could it be from airration of the water some how?

 

[Martins]

Have you seen it when it dries? Is it leaving a film. My spot free was doing the exact same thing in the bays. It looked just like soap but turned out to be air bubbles. It wouldn’t stain though

yes, no film at all just plain water but bubbly,

 

[cantbreak80]

“more so since it got colder out.”

A leaking weep system check valve might be the cause.
Consider this possibility:
High pressure soap past the leaking check valve sends soapy water into the weep system supply plumbing…through the open weep solenoid…into the water supply.
If that’s the case, it’s good that you don’t have a softener otherwise it would now be contaminated with soap/wax.

 

[MEP001]

“more so since it got colder out.”

If your weep is unplugged and shut off at the ball valve until it gets cold, that's probably not it. That would be easy to diagnose, pick a time that no one is washing and with the weep off run one bay at a time and check the others for weep water running out. Whichever bay causes that is your culprit.

Does the "rinse" tank ever overflow with the weep running and no one washing?

 

[Martins]

If your weep is unplugged and shut off at the ball valve until it gets cold, that's probably not it. That would be easy to diagnose, pick a time that no one is washing and with the weep off run one bay at a time and check the others for weep water running out. Whichever bay causes that is your culprit.

Does the "rinse" tank ever overflow with the weep running and no one washing?

Weep water is hard lined into the water supply line separate from pump stand. not running off of the holding tanks at all. I feel like its the hot water itself. i had the hot water heaters shut off all summer and didn't seem to notice the bubbles. but now with it running hot water i seem to notice it more so.

 

[Martins]

If your weep is unplugged and shut off at the ball valve until it gets cold, that's probably not it. That would be easy to diagnose, pick a time that no one is washing and with the weep off run one bay at a time and check the others for weep water running out. Whichever bay causes that is your culprit.

Does the "rinse" tank ever overflow with the weep running and no one washing?

finally caught the holding tank filling. this is what its doing with the hot water. this is straight from the hot water heaters. question Mep, this hot water feed t's off and runs water lines to all my hydro minders. is it possible for the hydro to be back feeding soap into the water feed? there is no other connection points for the water. hold again this site wont let me upload pics in my thread.

 

[Martins]

But even with these pics after a few second it clears completely. is it the water itself, or is this soap back feeding from the inlet.


View attachment tank vid_Trim.mp4

 

[cantbreak80]

I still believe you have a leaking check valve.

There are 2 CVs under each of the pumps. The lower CVs are plumbed with poly tubing from the weep solenoid.

If one or more of the lower CVs are leaking, that high-pressure leak pushes water back through the weep system water supply and into the car wash's water plumbing. Now, when the rinse tank float valve opens, that soap/wax contaminated water shows up in the tank.

Bays 1-3 are equipped with Rego Stainless Steel CVs...Bay 4 CVs are a different brand.
With the weep system OFF, I'd disconnect the poly tubing to each lower CV and turn on the pump.
If water flows out of the disconnected CV...problem found.

I'd suspect Bay 4's CV. However, Regos are not immune to leaking. A simple o-ring replacement will fix the Rego.

 

[MEP001]

But even with these pics after a few second it clears completely. is it the water itself, or is this soap back feeding from the inlet.

That looks normal. I've always had hot water do that going into the "rinse" tank.

Here are all the possible causes:

A bad weep check valve could be letting high pressure soap back into the water lines. That would be the easiest to find and fix, just close the water line to the weep and run each bay one at a time and check the others for weep coming out. If running a bay causes the weep to run on the others, that bay has a bad weep check valve.

A low pressure chemical could be backing up into the tank. I have seen this happen many times, and it requires a bad pump inlet check valve AND a bad pump. The easiest way to check for this (assuming the spot free check valves are at the boom) is to run each bay on a low-pressure function (tire cleaner or presoak) for 30 seconds, don't need the trigger pulled, then run it on spot free until it runs clear, then run it on rinse. Nothing but water should come from the gun. If you get any significant amount of the low pressure soap, the pump is a problem AND the check valve to that pump is bad.

It's possible for soap to get pulled into the plumbing from a Hydrominder, but realistically that should not happen. Your water pressure would have to drop to negative for some reason, so in the middle of a busy day without seeing anything starve for water this isn't going to happen. There should be a hole in the discharge tube above the mixed chemical on each Hydrominder anyway, which will prevent this.

It could be salt from the softener, it's unlikely but I have seen it happen. Easy enough to test, just taste it and if it tastes salty, there you go.

Least likely, but I have seen this twice myself, is that soap is clinging to the insides of the high pressure lines. The first time I saw this, it started doing this on all the bays within a few months, probably because all the lines were the same age. The way we figured it out was that we noticed that going from soap to rinse you'd see a little suds in the rinse for as much as five minutes, but if you went from soap to high pressure wax, even for a couple seconds, then to rinse, the rinse was completely clear.

 

[Martins]

If your weep is unplugged and shut off at the ball valve until it gets cold, that's probably not it. That would be easy to diagnose, pick a time that no one is washing and with the weep off run one bay at a time and check the others for weep water running out. Whichever bay causes that is your culprit.

Does the "rinse" tank ever overflow with the weep running and no one washing?

I still believe you have a leaking check valve.

There are 2 CVs under each of the pumps. The lower CVs are plumbed with poly tubing from the weep solenoid.

If one or more of the lower CVs are leaking, that high-pressure leak pushes water back through the weep system water supply and into the car wash's water plumbing. Now, when the rinse tank float valve opens, that soap/wax contaminated water shows up in the tank.

Bays 1-3 are equipped with Rego Stainless Steel CVs...Bay 4 CVs are a different brand.
With the weep system OFF, I'd disconnect the poly tubing to each lower CV and turn on the pump.
If water flows out of the disconnected CV...problem found.

I'd suspect Bay 4's CV. However, Regos are not immune to leaking. A simple o-ring replacement will fix the Rego.

So i took the time to go ahead and check all the weeps just incase. all of them check ok, none are leaking when under pressure, including when under full pressure as well. - and no my tank fills then stops.

 

[Randy]

Have you thought about hooking up your Hyrdominders to cold water for a few days to see if the problem goes away?

 

[Martins]

That looks normal. I've always had hot water do that going into the "rinse" tank.

Here are all the possible causes:

A bad weep check valve could be letting high pressure soap back into the water lines. That would be the easiest to find and fix, just close the water line to the weep and run each bay one at a time and check the others for weep coming out. If running a bay causes the weep to run on the others, that bay has a bad weep check valve.

A low pressure chemical could be backing up into the tank. I have seen this happen many times, and it requires a bad pump inlet check valve AND a bad pump. The easiest way to check for this (assuming the spot free check valves are at the boom) is to run each bay on a low-pressure function (tire cleaner or presoak) for 30 seconds, don't need the trigger pulled, then run it on spot free until it runs clear, then run it on rinse. Nothing but water should come from the gun. If you get any significant amount of the low pressure soap, the pump is a problem AND the check valve to that pump is bad.

It's possible for soap to get pulled into the plumbing from a Hydrominder, but realistically that should not happen. Your water pressure would have to drop to negative for some reason, so in the middle of a busy day without seeing anything starve for water this isn't going to happen. There should be a hole in the discharge tube above the mixed chemical on each Hydrominder anyway, which will prevent this.

It could be salt from the softener, it's unlikely but I have seen it happen. Easy enough to test, just taste it and if it tastes salty, there you go.

Least likely, but I have seen this twice myself, is that soap is clinging to the insides of the high pressure lines. The first time I saw this, it started doing this on all the bays within a few months, probably because all the lines were the same age. The way we figured it out was that we noticed that going from soap to rinse you'd see a little suds in the rinse for as much as five minutes, but if you went from soap to high pressure wax, even for a couple seconds, then to rinse, the rinse was completely clear.

So i took the time to go ahead and check all the weeps just incase. all of them check ok, none are leaking when under pressure, including when under full pressure as well.

LP systems are all separate on my set up. Each in their own tanks, each on their own lines out to a manifold above the bay. (Post pump)

no salt as my wash has no softener system.

the last one is kind of what i am starting to lean towards, i mentioned this last year when i was having the same problem. but everyone told me i was crazy haha. i honestly don't know what else it could be at this point... its kind of driving me nuts.