For those CFL converts…

[2Biz]

Just curious, how did you decide that the 85 watt was going to put out enough light to equal the 175 metal halide? On their website they also have 105 watt and 150 watt. All of them seem to be less lumens that a 175 watt metal halide produces and yet I can see in your pictures that the clear choice would be the flourescent. A couple of years ago I installed some new wall paks that had a 150 watt metal halide pulse start bulb in it. These produce 9800 lumens, way more than a 175 watt probe start metal halide. I still have some old probe style metal halides that need replacing.

I initially bought (3) different sizes and compared them to the old metal halides I Had in the other bays. I settled on the 85w because they were much brighter than what I had plus gave me the most savings. I also have the White Extrutech wall panels that help reflect light.

If undecided, I would suggest you do the same. Order (3) different wattage bulbs and do a comparison...That way you can compare to your other bays before deciding on what works best for your situation.

 

[2Biz]

It is my understanding that there is no CFL that comes close to the output of a 400W MH, or at least one that would fit.

1000bulbs.com has these:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/8375/FC200-35871.html

They are 200w and put out 850w of light equivelant at 5000k. Although they are 5" in diameter and 13.75" long. I don't know if they will fit in a 400w fixture...

They also have some 150w bulbs that output 500w of light...5000k...They are 13" long...

 

[Earl Weiss]

1000bulbs.com has these:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/8375/FC200-35871.html

They are 200w and put out 850w of light equivelant at 5000k. Although they are 5" in diameter and 13.75" long. I don't know if they will fit in a 400w fixture...

They also have some 150w bulbs that output 500w of light...5000k...They are 13" long...

NG. Site says "ambient environments up to 100 degrees Fahrenheit; 200 Watt HighMax for open fixtures only" I can see the ceiling of the tunnel going way over 100 degrees on a summer day and the fixture can't be open. Thanks anyway.

 

[copperglobe]

2Biz: Do you know how many amps per 85W CFL you're using? The web sites don't list amps but watts. Amps give us a better feel for consumption as it takes into account the heat generated. Thanks.

 

[MEP001]

2Biz: Do you know how many amps per 85W CFL you're using? The web sites don't list amps but watts. Amps give us a better feel for consumption as it takes into account the heat generated. Thanks.

Amps is watts divided by volts. 85W / 120V = .7 amps

Heat generated by the fixture has less to do with the amperage drawn than by the efficiency of the fixture in converting energy to light.

 

[copperglobe]

Amps is watts divided by volts. 85W / 120V = .7 amps

Heat generated by the fixture has less to do with the amperage drawn than by the efficiency of the fixture in converting energy to light.

I agree to a point. However, the amount of heat generated is produced through the amps. Doing the math of a 85W cfl comes out with .77 amps. I would like to know what the "field use" is in amps.

 

[cantbreak80]

Zounds! First time ever I’ve reached 3 pages of “conversation” with one of my quexions! I’m usually the thread killer!

Thanks all for the 411. Pretty much gave me the ‘energy’ to proceed with the conversion.

My power bills average $525/month. My absolute busiest month’s power bill is only $130 more than my absolutely dead, wonder why I’m even open, just so I can pay the rent, wish it would rain or Mt. St. Helen’s would bust a move, best time to go on vacation month.

So, the project begins…re-lamping 20 MH fixtures! Won’t be too bad; all I gotta do is rewire all the devices to 120 volts, reconfigure the devices so the CFLs will fit, add an astronomical timer, a programmable relay, some switching relays, assemble the enclosure, run some conduit and pull some wire. Piece of cake! Probably a good way to spend a lazy Wednesday afternoon???

I plan to have the timer turn all lights on dusk-to-dawn, plus/minus 40 minutes. The programmable relay will turn off the exit lights at 10 pm. And, should a customer want to wash after 10 pm, the bay timer will illuminate the exit light for that bay. That lamp will stay lit for 10 minutes after the bay timer expires. (CFLs don’t like short on-off cycles.)

Maybe, the exit lights will come back on at 5 am…I’ll decide later.

I expect to save at least $1,500 annually based upon the comments and some quick calculations from my last 2 years power bills.

I’m using a $33 Leviton Astronomical timer (from Grainer) with automatic DST changeover (no more forgetting to reset the clocks), an IDEC Smart Relay with 1 expansion module, a few ice-cube relays, eight 105w and twelve 85w 5000K CFLs.

Thanks to all for your comments and solutions…looks like I’ll be away from the golf course for a bit longer…unlike that dude that gets a lot more media attention than I do...and who has a lot more responsibilities!

 

[2Biz]

Thanks to all for your comments and solutions…looks like I’ll be away from the golf course for a bit longer…unlike that dude that gets a lot more media attention than I do...and who has a lot more responsibilities!

I also doubt your golf games cost the tax payers as much either!

 

[cantbreak80]

I also doubt your golf games cost the tax payers as much either!

I was half expecting a "What? Another Smart Relay?" from you.
BTW...how's your blowout/af unit working? Any issues?

 

[washnvac]

I installed the 105 watt mogul base cfls in some 400 watt mh ceiling mounted box fixtures on a wash I just took over. There were four in each bay. So I went from 1600 watts to 420 watts/bay with a better light appearance; using the 5000k/ full spectrum. Burning 16 lights an average of 14 hours per day will equate to annual savings of $3618. Electric is high in this municipality at $0.15/kWh. Plus, the cfls are cheaper than replacing the 400 watt mh bulb and starter.

 

[2Biz]

I was half expecting a "What? Another Smart Relay?" from you.
BTW...how's your blowout/af unit working? Any issues?

The Blowout/AF system is working better than expected! Its amazing how little AF it uses when set up properly. Maybe 2-3 gallons a month at the most... I have 30 psi set on both air and Washer Fluid (Flojet) with 10 seconds of air, 5 seconds Washer Fluid, then 10 seconds of air to complete the cycle. Its working perfectly!

Yes, I was thinking You must really love those Idec relays! I can't believe you found another use for one!

I'm going to have to check out that Astronomical Timer It WOULD be nice not to have to keep changing my manual light timer!

 

[cantbreak80]

It’s a “plug in to an outlet” style. With a relay, I’ll use it’s 120v output to I9 on the SR. For $36 at Grainger (pn 6PFY4) it’s the least expensive astronomical timer I’ve found…with automatic DST and dusk/dawn offset.

Thanks for providing the “proof of concept” for the ABO/AF system. THAT will be the next mod I make…I think I spent about $1K on washer fluid last year! YIKES!!!

 

[MEP001]

I'm going to have to check out that Astronomical Timer

I used this one:

http://1000bulbs.com/product/3381/ELEC-ET8215CR.html

Programming is a bit complicated, but you'll only have to do it once. This one looks like it will directly replace a mechanical timer in an existing box:

http://1000bulbs.com/product/3384/ELEC-ET8015C.html

With a photocell the lights were staying on about an hour longer than necessary every morning, all day if it's overcast. I figured at minimum the timer paid for itself with energy savings in three months, and with the second output turning off half the bay lights at midnight, closer to two months.

 

[packerscw]

The Blowout/AF system is working better than expected! Its amazing how little AF it uses when set up properly. Maybe 2-3 gallons a month at the most... I have 30 psi set on both air and Washer Fluid (Flojet) with 10 seconds of air, 5 seconds Washer Fluid, then 10 seconds of air to complete the cycle. Its working perfectly!

How many bays do you have and are you only using it on your guns or foam brush also?

 

[2Biz]

Thanks for providing the “proof of concept” for the ABO/AF system. THAT will be the next mod I make…I think I spent about $1K on washer fluid last year! YIKES!!!

I put about 8-10 gallons in the 15 gallon drum I used. It has only used about 2" of the amount I originally started with. The system didn't work too well at first. I was trying to push air and washer fluid through the same line out to the each bay. It took way more air and chemical to make it work effectively. When I added the second line out to the bay, one for air and one for washer fluid, it worked like a charm.

Since you got your new system in, have you seen the same savings? WOW $1K seems like a lot...Unless you have 100 bays!

Packerscw...I am only using the washer fluid to winterize my Tri Foam System in (3) bays. I weep water in the HP guns and use winter FB soap in the Foam Brushes. Seems to work quite well...

 

[2Biz]

It’s a “plug in to an outlet” style. With a relay, I’ll use it’s 120v output to I9 on the SR. For $36 at Grainger (pn 6PFY4) it’s the least expensive astronomical timer I’ve found…with automatic DST and dusk/dawn offset.

BTW, Thanks for the P/N....I will definetly check it out...

I was wondering though. Why wouldn't you just use this and power a standard relay to carry load instead of using a SR? Surely I'm missing something?

 

[cantbreak80]

I was wondering though. Why wouldn't you just use this and power a standard relay to carry load instead of using a SR? Surely I'm missing something?

Because I can! Ok, really…

Astronomical timer turns all lights on at 45 minutes before dusk.
Smart Relay sequences the lights on with 5 second delays between circuits...I know the load will be less with CFLs but why not avoid a potential Demand charge?
Smart Relay turns off all lights on the exit side of the bays at 10pm
Any bay used between 10pm and 5am…Smart Relay turns on that bay’s exit light
Used bay exit light turns off 10 minutes after bay timer expires...for increased lamp life...CFLs don't like short cycles.
At 5am all exit lights on
45 minutes after dawn, Smart Relay turns off all lights

Smart Relay menu items include:
Off delay time adjustment for a used bay
All lights on for 1 hour with the pushbutton…all lights off if the pb is pushed again.
(At the suggestion of my attendant. “I won’t be able to see if I come to work at 0darkthirty, and I’ll probably forget to turn the lights off when I leave.)

The Leviton timer offers a dusk/dawn offset. Set the offset for minus 1 hour and it turns on an hour before dusk. Unfortunately, it also turns off an hour before dawn! A Smart Relay off-delay block solves that issue.

So, I’m spending $350(?) to control 20 CFLs and 2 T5 fixtures. I’m going all in towards saving massive bucks on power bills. And, the controls will allow me to modify each bay’s on/off times.

You know? An eight bay car wash only needs to be eight bays about 30 days/year. And those 30 days, an eight bay car wash needs to be twelve bays! So, I just might turn out the lights on 4 or 6 bays after 10pm. I bet I’ll do the same $15-$30 in late night business…with less power and reduced morning clean-up. (Those minimum wages are going up don’tyaknow.)

 

[cantbreak80]

Since you got your new system in, have you seen the same savings? WOW $1K seems like a lot...Unless you have 100 bays!

What new system? Your's is the only one in actual use.

With this season's weather, my old program has reared it's ugly head. AF only after each use. Problem is, sunny days at 25* after a precipitation event. EVERYBODY uses the FB and foam guns. So each device gets the full treatment 4 to 6 times an hour. Times 8 bays. Times 8 hours.

Some weekend days have used upwards of 50 gallons! That's why I asked. But, by the time I get done with the program/equipment change, it will be mild weather and the greens will be calling. Ah, just in time!

 

[MEP001]

The Leviton timer offers a dusk/dawn offset. Set the offset for minus 1 hour and it turns on an hour before dusk. Unfortunately, it also turns off an hour before dawn! A Smart Relay off-delay block solves that issue.

If it means anything, the timer I linked lets you adjust the on times and off times individually up to two hours either way from the programmed sunrise/sunset times. I have the on times about 30 minutes before sunset for the front of the bays and 15 for the rear; off for the front is 15 for the front and midnight for the rear.

 

[2Biz]

What new system? Your's is the only one in actual use.

With this season's weather, my old program has reared it's ugly head. AF only after each use. Problem is, sunny days at 25* after a precipitation event. EVERYBODY uses the FB and foam guns. So each device gets the full treatment 4 to 6 times an hour. Times 8 bays. Times 8 hours.

Some weekend days have used upwards of 50 gallons! That's why I asked. But, by the time I get done with the program/equipment change, it will be mild weather and the greens will be calling. Ah, just in time!

One of the last times we talked, you had bought a bunch of equipment, Smart Relays, expansion modules, etc...Or so I thought. But like me I'm guessing it got warm and you didn't get around to it? Anyway, adding air works great. You don't need much AF at all then push it with air...What settles in the hose is pure washer fluid. (I have clear curly hose).

I should have known you'd take this CFL Light savings to the "N'th" level!

Thankfully I only have bay lights and vac lights or I could see another project needing to be done! I can't modify what I have much other than to add the astronomical timer. I already have a relay in place that handles the load.