friction after wax

[washnshine]

Going to add hot wax very soon. I do not have a set up that will allow me to place it in a location before my friction equipment - I'd have to add a mitter to "buff" it in, and cannot do that right now.

Is there any decrease in the effect of this product if it is just applied and rinsed without friction? I know the touchless iba's do this. Is the friction part mainly customer perception, or does it enhance the qualities of the product.

 

[buda]

HOT WAX is nothing new, it was introduced to the car wash industry, nearly 50 years ago by Ed Hobus. It was sprayed on hot to melt the carnauba wax in the product.

Regards
Bud

 

[washnshine]

Thanks Bud - so the friction makes no difference?

 

[buda]

Can't say for certain that friction makes no difference, but I do know that when Carnuaba Hot Wax was first introduced to the industry is was only sprayed on. Then when it fell out of favor, spray on wax became "Sealer Wax." Actually it was not wax at all and Mr Hobus sued one of the major chemical companies for calling their product "wax" when it, in fact, did not contain wax, and won.

Then in 1974, Dan Hanna of Hanna Industries introduced one of the most revolutionary money-making concepts to the industry which we deemed, POLISH 'n WAX. The application system was a top brush and set of rocker panels.

The marketing concept concept was first a "foam polish" that was brushed into the finish first and then after the brushing a "sealer wax" to protect the finish. The foam polish was a cleaner or surface preparation for the sealer wax.

Between you and I the brushing was not really needed to provide the effect that was implied, but it was a great way to convince the motorist of the difference between the polish and wax. In the detail business we always talk about "polishing and waxing" the vehicle paint, so it was a natural extension of what the motorist understood.

Later when companies copied the Hanna POLISH 'n WAX Machine Hanna beat the competition by utilizing the existing top brush in the wash and rocker panels in the wash package. Hanna in the 70's always put the top brush at the end of the wash package where everyone else put it at the front of the wash package.

Why not put the polish on at the front of the wash package and the wax or sealant at the end. Works the same way.

Bud Abraham

 

[robert roman]

“Is there any decrease in the effect of this product (hot wax) if it is just applied and rinsed without friction?”

Short answer is no.

If you examine the sales literature, Simoniz does not include or recommend a buffing unit in any of the three chemical/equipment packages it offers for the hot wax and shine and lava shield programs.

Historically, innovation has been used to keep extending the life cycle of carwash.

According to Simoniz, “….hot wax in the 60’s, foam polish and sealer waxes in the 70’s, pressure wax and pressure glaze in the 80’s, and triple foam polishers and conditioners in the 90’s. These products offered shine and protection through a variety of raw materials that ranged from carnauba wax to silicone oils to cationic surfactant systems.”

Please note triple foam is cationic surfactant system. Surfactant means detergent. Soap cleans but does not shine or protect.

Then came Double Bond (reactive silicone and Teflon technology) followed by super-hydrophobic products like Rain-X online (total body), Turtle Wax ICE, etc.

Hot wax beads better than DB, Rain-X, ICE, etc. because carnauba imparts greater surface contact angle. Carnauba’s smoother, it shines better and provides depth (wet look).

 

[DixieCarWash]

Just my 0.02 cents,

I look at this similar to comparing the pros and cons of spray painting vs roller and brush painting if that makes sense.

Now I'm just speaking of opinion and observation from working at multiple washes and visiting others, almost all applied wax prior to the last friction module (typically a mitter and side washer)

My guess is the wax can cure but maybe the added friction helps smooth out the wax.

Since I've never seen this process without friction I can't state this as a fact but rather an opinion. So don't take my word for it.

 

[DixieCarWash]

Just my 0.02 cents,

I look at this similar to comparing the pros and cons of spray painting vs roller and brush painting if that makes sense.

Now I'm just speaking of opinion and observation from working at multiple washes and visiting others, almost all applied wax prior to the last friction module (typically a mitter and side washer)

My guess is the wax can cure but maybe the added friction helps smooth out the wax.

Since I've never seen this process without friction I can't state this as a fact but rather an opinion so don't take my word for it.

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW my Foam "Polish Wax" is applied before the lat friction unit. Sealer wax and Rain X is after the last friction unit.

One of my first jobs in the 1960's was selling the new fangled "Hot Carnauba Wax" (Before) that we had "Cold Wax" Mr. Holbus sold us the arch with the bears on it and the product and a heater that wrapped around the 55 gallon Drum.

 

[washnshine]

FWIW my Foam "Polish Wax" is applied before the lat friction unit. Sealer wax and Rain X is after the last friction unit.

One of my first jobs in the 1960's was selling the new fangled "Hot Carnauba Wax" (Before) that we had "Cold Wax" Mr. Holbus sold us the arch with the bears on it and the product and a heater that wrapped around the 55 gallon Drum.

I only have one top friction component in my tunnel - a top brush. I am hesitant to apply hot wax to the car before this component because the car is still dirty. Many polish waxes are more detergent based, and applying them before any friction on a dirty car will aid in cleaning the car. Hot Wax and Shine, however is a high beading sealer product. Yes, it does foam, but it functions more like a super sealer, and I wouldn't want to put a product like that on dirt and road film.

I do recall the hot wax from the 1960's and 1970's, and I believe that was applied in the final rinsing stages of the wash - after the polish wax. It seems like the Hot Wax of today was moved back in the tunnel because of the foaming and light show that accompanies it. Maybe also because we already have high quality sealers like Rain X in the final stage of the wash and this is a way to separate and differentiate these products. In the one IBA I saw with this product, it was touchless, so it could not be buffed in, and it was followed only by the final rinse.

 

[robert roman]

Here are ingredients of hot wax and shine from MSDS.

Water

Detergent range alcohol Ethoxylate is surfactant. When dissolved in water, surfactant helps detergents remove dirt from surfaces.

Cocamidopropyl betaine is used as a foam booster in shampoos.

Bio-based surfactant blend is non-petroleum-based produced from palm oils or coconut oil.

Carnauba wax produces glossy and smooth finish with as little as one hundredth of one percent by weigh.

Carnauba has high melting point which helps it from literally being evaporated off the surface from high surface temperature.

Carnauba also imparts high surface contact angle (120 degrees) which causes considerable beading effect.

Unlike creams, paste or hard wax applied by hand or orbital buffer, hot wax is liquid solution that is usually applied to vehicle as lava foam. It can also be applied with an arch like rain-x online.

The final step is to “rinse” excess off and help the wax set up, so to speak, like when carnauba is used to coat candy and pills - no buffing is used.

 

[sudsurfer]

If carnuba is applied right before a mitter, how much stays on the cloth? I have had customers tell me they did not need the top package because most of previous cars triple shine and wax was still on equipment.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Since all material should be continualt flushed with cleaning / lubricating solution little residue should remain.

 

[buda]

If carnuba is applied right before a mitter, how much stays on the cloth? I have had customers tell me they did not need the top package because most of previous cars triple shine and wax was still on equipment.

As Earl states, normally a MITTER should be flushed with fresh water and/or shampoo to wash away any previous wax. As well, to be effective in the finish of the vehicle to would have to be applied directly to the finish of the vehicle, be it foam or plain liquid.

But if he believes otherwise I suspect you would never change his mind.

As well, what if the vehicle in front of him did not purchase the wax?