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[buda]

From time to time you hear and read self-service car wash operators complaining of the fact that commercial/residential carpet cleaners are dumping their waste water, without permission, into the self service bays drains.

Yes, this is a problem and carpet cleaning industry leaders recognize this as problem. In fact, I recently was contacted by one of the leading magazines in the industry to help them with a story on this issue.

Go to this link from Cleanfax one of the industry trade publications that addresses the issue: http://www.cleanfax.com/articles/104851-cfr-release-410

While it does not talk specifically about self-service car washes it did get me to think this "problem" can be an opportunity for self-service car wash operators.

SUGGESTION: Why not contact all the carpet cleaners listed in your local Yellow Pages and offer to make a "deal" with them to dispose of their waste water in your self service bays. You can set the perameters of the agreement.
At the same time you can mention that it is against the law and is trespassing and punishable by fines, etc.

It is not the perfect answer but it is a positive approach to a problem and may result in some extra revenues.

Just some well intentioned thoughts to consider.

Regards
Bud Abraham

 

[cantbreak80]

Ok…

So, what do I do when they dump the wastewater from the household that owns three untrained dogs and a pot-belly pig?

Or, from the sewage flooded basement?

Or, the assisted-living home where the occupant suffers from frequent bloody noses?

Or, they were the cleanup crew after a meth-lab bust?

Isn’t that bio-hazard going to contaminate my 500 gallon tank…and then my 1,500 gallon sand/oil separator?

And, what if they dump in my least-used bay in summer time of year? Or, during mud season when the tank discharge gets clogged and floods the bay floor? YIKES!!!

Thanks for the suggestion but…I don’t think so.

 

[buda]

THKS THE POST. IS THE GLASS HALF-FULL OR HALF-EMPTY.

So, what do I do when they dump the wastewater from the household that owns three untrained dogs and a pot-belly pig?

DO YOU REALIZE THAT THE SEWAGE FROM YOUR HOUSE GOES DIRECTLY INTO THE SANITARY SEWER YOU HAVE NO INTERMEDIATE FILTRATION SYSTEM USE AS THE CAR WASH OIL-WATER SEPARATOR. I DO NOT THINK THAT DOG OR PIG FECES IS ANY WORSE THAN HUMAN WASTE. SO ACTUALLY WITH YOUR INTERMEDIATE FILTRATION SYSTEM BEFORE THE EFFLUENT GOES INTO THE SEWER IT IS BETTER THAN THE DISCHARGE FROM A NORMAL HOUSE SYSTEM.

THE CLEAN WATER ACT IS ONLY CONCERNED THAT EFFLUENT GOES INTO A SANITARY SEWER SYSTEM BEFORE IT GOES INTO THE RIVER AND STREAMS.

Or, from the sewage flooded basement?
Or, the assisted-living home where the occupant suffers from frequent bloody noses?
Or, they were the cleanup crew after a meth-lab bust?

SEE ABOVE

Isn’t that bio-hazard going to contaminate my 500 gallon tank…and then my 1,500 gallon sand/oil separator?

WHAT IS BIO-HAZARD? AS LONG AS IT GOES INTO THE SANITARY SEWER NO VIOLATIONS W/ THE CLEAN WATER ACT REGULATIONS.

WHY DO YOU HAVE A 500 GAL TANK & A 1500 GAL OIL-WATER SEPARATOR???

AREN'T DRAINS IN THE BAYS CONNECTED TO THE OIL WATER SEPARATOR & THEN TO SANITARY SEWER?

And, what if they dump in my least-used bay in summer time of year?

EXPLAIN THAT TO ME, I MISS THE POINT?

Or, during mud season when the tank discharge gets clogged and floods the bay floor? YIKES!!!

WOULDN'T A PERSON AVOID A BAY THAT IS FLOODED? MOST CARPET CLEANERS ARE THAT SMART.

Thanks for the suggestion but…I don’t think so.[/QUOTE]

WHAT IS TO STOP CUSTOMERS OR CARPET CLEANERS WHO DON'T HAVE YOUR PERMISSION FROM DOING THESE THINGS?

CHECK THE CLEAN WATER ACT REGULATIONS RE: EFFLUENTS & WHAT CAN BE DUMPED INTO A DRAIN CONNECTED TO THE SANITARY SEWER. YOUR COMMENTS SEEM TO INDICATE YOU ARE NOT CLEAR ON THOSE REGULATIONS.

 

[2Biz]

I have to agree with CB80 100%. In 2 years I have caught 2 carpet cleaners dumping in the bays. Within a few days the bay pits stunk to high heaven....Bacteria Ladden. I had to pump the water out of the bay pits and seperation pits to keep it from stinking anymore. In the heat of the summer, this is amplified. I have a hard enough time keeping the bay pits from stinking from normal washing.

The last one I caught on video, I went to his house and told him not to do it again and why. Believe it or not he understood and as far as I know he hasn't done it again.

The only way I would even consider this, would be If I had a seperate line out to the sanitary sewer not connected to the bays or sludge tanks. Since I don't, its out of the question for me. I would think you'd run away more business from the stink than what you would gain by inviting carpet cleaning dumpers.

 

[MEP001]

The only way I would even consider this, would be If I had a seperate line out to the sanitary sewer not connected to the bays or sludge tanks.

I agree 100%. I don't think I'd even put in "pay to dump" like they have at RV waste facilities because guess what will happen: someone will pull in to use it and think "Why not just dump it in the open pit for free?"

The smell isn't even the only problem. They routinely leave a mess when they clean the filter sock on the floor, and they tie up the bay while they're doing it.

 

[MEP001]

CHECK THE CLEAN WATER ACT REGULATIONS RE: EFFLUENTS & WHAT CAN BE DUMPED INTO A DRAIN CONNECTED TO THE SANITARY SEWER. YOUR COMMENTS SEEM TO INDICATE YOU ARE NOT CLEAR ON THOSE REGULATIONS.

Your comments seem to indicate that you don't understand we don't want these guys stealing from us. How many of them have you dealt with directly? Have you ever been cussed at by someone on YOUR property using something of yours you don't want them to and telling you they'll just come back when you aren't around and do it?

Using all caps is the internet equivalent of shouting.

 

[mac]

A few years ago in the city I live in, the cops were doing a high speed pursuit of some stupid kid on a motorcycle. This was at night. The kid lost control, wiped out, and the intrepid cop car proceeded to drive over him and sort of scrape him along the pavement till he got stopped. The remains on the street were put in a body bag, but a wrecked towed to cop car in for repairs. When they raised the car, they noticed a lot of "stuff" on the bottom. You guessed it, they went to a local wash and proceeded to give the kid a sort of burial at sea. The wash owner never was alerted or found out. I only knew because I know the tow truck driver.

 

[mac]

A few years ago in the city I live in, the cops were doing a high speed pursuit of some stupid kid on a motorcycle. This was at night. The kid lost control, wiped out, and the intrepid cop car proceeded to drive over him and sort of scrape him along the pavement till he got stopped. The remains on the street were put in a body bag, but a wrecked towed to cop car in for repairs. When they raised the car, they noticed a lot of "stuff" on the bottom. You guessed it, they went to a local wash and proceeded to give the kid a sort of burial at sea. The wash owner never was alerted or found out. I only knew because I know the tow truck driver. Bud, I like your idea, even though others seem not to. The carpet people do have to dump somewhere, and would probably be willing to pay a fee to do so. Don't motor homes have to pay to dump their wastewater?

 

[MEP001]

The carpet people do have to dump somewhere, and would probably be willing to pay a fee to do so.

Willing? I seriously doubt that. See my post above.

Bud, I like your idea, even though others seem not to.

I never said I didn't like it. If they were willing to pay I'd be all over it.

 

[mac]

Well the devil is in the details as they say. I think this could work in smaller markets, say towns of 10 to 50,000 people. Not sure how you could control it, but with the electronics available today there should be some method. In a really big city there could be 200 of these vans. I at least found it refreshing that someone looked at this in a different way.

 

[bigleo48]

I appreciate Bud's idea. I'm not sure how you could make it work or that I would even be interested, but I like his idea of thinking outside the box.

 

[robert roman]

Nice thought, Bud.

However, there is no part-time in waste disposal business. A site is either a dump or not.

Could a combination carwash - waste disposal business work on same site?

Perform a sanity test.

Sales = mobile operators in area * average discharge per month per mobile operator * average gallon per discharge * 12 * price charged per gallon

100 percent market share = 200 * 26 * 300 * 12 * $5.00 per 1,000 gallons

Sales = $93,600

Assume $50,000 capital equipment (biological waste water treatment system).

Also, a person is needed on-site to examine/accept or reject waste or no insurance coverage due to risk of “self-service” dumping.

So, assume $25,000 for labor and operating expense, lease factor $1,000 per month and out of pocket $25,000.

Sanity Test = assume you capture 50 percent market share or $46,800.

NOI = $46,800 – ($25,000 + $12,000) = $9,800

ROC =$9,800 / $25,000 = 39%

Would this make economic sense to an operator?

Does this make operational sense? 50 percent share means 100 mobile operators would visit the site each day to dump 300 gallons.

And finally, can entitlements be obtained to actually do this? If so, how much will this cost?

 

[buda]

"When Life Gives you Lemons, Make Lemonade"

You self service car wash operators and those of you who posted on this subject might want to look on line for the March, 2013 issue of CLEANFAX which is a trade publication in the carpet & upholstery industry.

There is an article on this very subject titled: "Watch Your Waste, a closer look inside the recovery tank."

A professional in the industry Doug Berjer along with myself, contributed to this feature. Worth the read.

Did you know a typical truck mount carpet cleaner system might generate as much as 500 gallons of waste water a day?

Maybe my idea was not such a good one for self service car wash operators.

However, I do not believe their effluent creates any danger to your system.

Regards
Bud Abraham

 

[MEP001]

However, I do not believe their effluent creates any danger to your system.

Again, the issue with which I'm most concerned is not danger to the system, but it IS on the list. The issues are smell, mess and theft of service (tying up a bay to dump effluent for free).

Read who was interviewed for the article: a manufacturer of carpet extractors. These are the same a-holes who have been telling the carpet cleaners to whom they've been selling equipment that it's okay to dump their effluent at a car wash.

 

[buda]

Gentlemen

Not trying to convince you of anything, it was an idea. An idea to combat something that goes on now over which you have to control.

Whether you agree with my idea or not, the "bandit" carpet cleaners are going to try and dump. How do you control them?

If you make a deal with the legitimate, larger operators you could make some additional revenue I am sure.

You say that their effluent is worse than a what comes off a motor vehicle. I seriously doubt that. The majority of the cleaners do house and office carpet. They typically do not do bio-hazard cleaning this is done only by certified bio-hazard cleaners. Insurance companies will not pay for a crime scene or suicide clean in a house, office or car unless done by a certified bio-hazard cleaning company.

What does a carpet cleaner have in their effluent that is worse than engine grease, brake dust; road oil, dirt, salt, magnesium cholride??

Why not find out what a legitimate carpet cleaning company is paying to dispose of their waster water. Approx. 500 gallons per day. They could be paying a HUGE amount of money. I know that it costs in Portland about $1500 to $2000 to pump a reclaim pit. Plus if the county/city requires a test of the effluent before they can pump it that is another $300 to $500.

Seems to me if you made a deal with the legitimate companies there could be some dollars in it for you and savings for them.

The carpet cleaners that run around with a portable extractor or a broken down, used truck mount unit are just like a mobile detailer who does not have a business license, does not contain their water and runs a "under-the-table business, will alway try to beat the system.

Regards
Bud Abraham

 

[MEP001]

Whether you agree with my idea or not, the "bandit" carpet cleaners are going to try and dump. How do you control them?

I think I've stopped them by just catching them, either in person or on video. It's been at least a year since I've found the crap from their filter sock on the bay floor or smelled the "wet dog" coming from the pits.

You say that their effluent is worse than a what comes off a motor vehicle.

In regards to what enters the sewer system, no one here has said it's worse.

What does a carpet cleaner have in their effluent that is worse than engine grease, brake dust; road oil, dirt, salt, magnesium cholride??

This:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbSYJBINxd0

What if they cleaned up a gallon of spilled, concentrated pesticide? Surely that's not legal to dump in a sanitary sewer.

 

[mmurra]

Those of us who have gone to gated WAYW do not have this problem, as these "scumbags" go to the easy / free access bay car wash. They are too cheap to pay the $6 to get on the property when they can get it done for free! Mark

 

[Waxman]

have tried the idea. they are too cheap to pay, have an entitlement attitude and aren't reputable, imo.

i'd rather make extra revenue selling used cars.

 

[Randy]

Over the years we’ve tried to work with the carpet cleaners. Talk about fly by night, they are the biggest bunch of low life’s you could ever possibly ever imagine, I’d NEVER! let one of them into my house. The carpet cleaning business is one of the least expensive businesses to get into. Like Waxman said they are cheap won’t pay when are getting a good deal, we were charging them $30 a month and they wouldn’t pay. Nope it's theft of services, call the Police let them deal with it.