Has anyone converted their long IBA to a mini tunnel?

[washnshine]

Yes, they can definitely do the i5 Eclipse / mini/tunnel style. We got "in the weeds" on it, w/ the i5, & i was so intrigued. We were gonna take the interior door out, for my site.

I think having dbl Eclipse bays w/ Typhoon & i5 would be a dam CA$H COW! They got 1 in Mizzou, that they had to buy front end loaders, to haul all their money to the bank in!!

Share pics of that i5 eclipse when you get it coach - I want to see that beast!

 

[soonermajic]

Wash N Shine,
Didn't mean to confuse, but i wound up not buying the site. Whataburger out bid me!!!;
I was gonna do i5 w/out any doors, take the wheel scrubbers off, but have Tire Shine inside bay & exterior dryers. Was gonna be about 56'.
I was very excited, & knew it'd be a Home Run. But alas, Whataburger stuck it to me.

 

[Roz]

Wow, good dialog on the topic. I have been tempted to try the move from IBA/SS model to a tunnel. However the premium cost above cash flow to purchase or even build a tunnel, the necessity for managing a fair number of employees, and the need to watch the weather on a daily basis got me thinking that it would be nice to have tunnel capacity without the tunnel headaches. I then saw the Sonny’s presentation along that line. After noodling it further and the points raised here I may just consider a fast IBA for our next renovation project. I will probably try to find 5 arm oasis typhoon or eclipse to try in our area (if possible). Our razors wash in the 2:30 to 3:48 range depending on the package so we can average 14 plus cars per hour but if an oasis can do 40 with great wash outcomes then that is worth looking into. I tried to find a Petit to try but none nearby. I wonder how much water the Typhoon uses per wash as that can be more expensive than the Chemcials depending on the gallons used.

 

[soonermajic]

I bet it uses quite a bit, but can't be too awful high, wince since it is a 2 minute wash...
Im also very intrigued by this idea. Especially if u can do it unattended

 

[washnshine]

I wonder how much water the Typhoon uses per wash as that can be more expensive than the Chemcials depending on the gallons used.

I know it has 5 arms, but aren’t they all running for a shorter duration of time since they each cover a only a portion of the car? I could see there might be a larger water demand at once (higher demand per minute), but shouldn’t the total output of the machine be in the ballpark of a single arm machine?

 

[Roz]

I know it has 5 arms, but aren’t they all running for a shorter duration of time since they each cover a only a portion of the car? I could see there might be a larger water demand at once (higher demand per minute), but shouldn’t the total output of the machine be in the ballpark of a single arm machine?

Maybe. Hard to say without the data from manufacturer. No two touch free machines are the same in terms of water usage. Need the water usage by pass as that is only way to know since you cannot make a general calculation. We add up the usage by pass for each package to get a reasonable estimate and then do a rough check when the water bill arrives as we know the number of washes and the amount of time for the SS bays. Just a rough cost estimate per wash.

 

[Blanco]

Wow, good dialog on the topic. I have been tempted to try the move from IBA/SS model to a tunnel. However the premium cost above cash flow to purchase or even build a tunnel, the necessity for managing a fair number of employees, and the need to watch the weather on a daily basis got me thinking that it would be nice to have tunnel capacity without the tunnel headaches. I then saw the Sonny’s presentation along that line. After noodling it further and the points raised here I may just consider a fast IBA for our next renovation project. I will probably try to find 5 arm oasis typhoon or eclipse to try in our area (if possible). Our razors wash in the 2:30 to 3:48 range depending on the package so we can average 14 plus cars per hour but if an oasis can do 40 with great wash outcomes then that is worth looking into. I tried to find a Petit to try but none nearby. I wonder how much water the Typhoon uses per wash as that can be more expensive than the Chemcials depending on the gallons used.

The typhoon utilizes two Cat 3545 pumps. Each pump uses 45 GPM. 90 GPM when both pumps are running. Both pumps only run on a HP rinse pass which takes no longer than 10-15sec roughly. My top wash has three HP rinse passes (first HP rinse, HP rinse after TF, and HP/CC Rinse). A single pump will run for entrance underbody (if applicable), rocker panel pass, and stationary underbody which are only used once during a wash cycle. A separate booster pump is used to deliver all the chemicals and SFR.

A Typhoon can only do 40 cars a hour if they are mostly basic washes. Expect about 30 cph as a more realistic number and not a oasis promo video.

My biggest dislike about the Petit is not that its slower. The problem depends on where your located since they have no heated system for the machine in cold climates. The answer Petit gave me a few years ago after a inquiry was put doors up. Any car wash owner that runs a wash in a cold climate understands that doors fail and its ridiculous to rely on them to keep your wash open. Whether its a issue with the doors, ice on the tracks, or a customer running into it. It happens and most likely on your busiest days. Imagine spending over 250K and have to close your wash down for a week or two during your busy season because someone ran into a door. Now your waiting on parts to get back up and running. Even a simple photo eye failure which will cause your door to stay open will result in the wash freezing within ten minutes. You don't have to worry about that with a typhoon. It has whats called a rail heat system and air purge. All rails, wands, igus', and bridge boxes are heated and water is purged out the wands. The wash will run with out doors but I don't suggest it. I did that for a few years. You will get tons of ice build up on walls. I would never run a IBA in a cold weather climate state without doors again UNLESS YOU HAVE TO. I have rail heat system, doors, and bay heaters. The more insurance the better. If a door fails I simply leave it up and wait for my parts. No down time.

 

[Roz]

If you do not mind asking, roughly speaking what is the cost of the system and the install? Wondering how it compares to a Razor.

 

[Blanco]

Maybe. Hard to say without the data from manufacturer. No two touch free machines are the same in terms of water usage. Need the water usage by pass as that is only way to know since you cannot make a general calculation. We add up the usage by pass for each package to get a reasonable estimate and then do a rough check when the water bill arrives as we know the number of washes and the amount of time for the SS bays. Just a rough cost estimate per wash.

Don't worry about the little shit. If water usage was a issue all touchless manufactures would be out of business. There plenty of profit to be made.

 

[Blanco]

If you do not mind asking, roughly speaking what is the cost of the system and the install? Wondering how it compares to a Razor.

Depends on the distributor. ROUGHLY 200k bare bones to 250k fully loaded. Eclipse adds ROUGHLY around 60-70K. All installs are not the same. 18K for a in state typhoon only install which will be the best money ever spent IF you have a good installer.

 

[washnshine]

The typhoon utilizes two Cat 3545 pumps. Each pump uses 45 GPM. 90 GPM when both pumps are running. Both pumps only run on a HP rinse pass which takes no longer than 10-15sec roughly. My top wash has three HP rinse passes (first HP rinse, HP rinse after TF, and HP/CC Rinse). A single pump will run for entrance underbody (if applicable), rocker panel pass, and stationary underbody which are only used once during a wash cycle. A separate booster pump is used to deliver all the chemicals and SFR.

A Typhoon can only do 40 cars a hour if they are mostly basic washes. Expect about 30 cph as a more realistic number and not a oasis promo video.

My biggest dislike about the Petit is not that its slower. The problem depends on where your located since they have no heated system for the machine in cold climates. The answer Petit gave me a few years ago after a inquiry was put doors up. Any car wash owner that runs a wash in a cold climate understands that doors fail and its ridiculous to rely on them to keep your wash open. Whether its a issue with the doors, ice on the tracks, or a customer running into it. It happens and most likely on your busiest days. Imagine spending over 250K and have to close your wash down for a week or two during your busy season because someone ran into a door. Now your waiting on parts to get back up and running. Even a simple photo eye failure which will cause your door to stay open will result in the wash freezing within ten minutes. You don't have to worry about that with a typhoon. It has whats called a rail heat system and air purge. All rails, wands, igus', and bridge boxes are heated and water is purged out the wands. The wash will run with out doors but I don't suggest it. I did that for a few years. You will get tons of ice build up on walls. I would never run a IBA in a cold weather climate state without doors again UNLESS YOU HAVE TO. I have rail heat system, doors, and bay heaters. The more insurance the better. If a door fails I simply leave it up and wait for my parts. No down time.

Good info Blanko- thanks for sharing. The only downside I have ever heard about an Oasis is that their distributor network is not very large. Are you fairly close to a distributor?

 

[Roz]

Don't worry about the little shit. If water usage was a issue all touchless manufactures would be out of business. There plenty of profit to be made.

With things about life you are correct to not sweat the small stuff. I am an engineer so I pay attention to details....and I like to understand the numbers too. I am guessing that the Typhoon has a slightly higher ($1) variable cost per washed car for water/sewer and depreciated cost per car washed due to the higher purchase price compared to a Razor. If you wash 20K cars a year you know the hit to profit line, but if you are able to wash more cars without adding another IBA that is valuable too. If you have 4-5 arms using HP water at the same time I wonder if you need a water pressure regulating system to help keep the water pressure high enough for the Typhoon and any other equipment you have on site.

Still worth considering the Typhoon in the future.

 

[Blanco]

Good info Blanko- thanks for sharing. The only downside I have ever heard about an Oasis is that their distributor network is not very large. Are you fairly close to a distributor?

Im about 3 hours away from my distributor. Not a bid deal for me because I do all my installs, maintenance, and repairs. For a owner who does not though, a GOOD distributor will be the key to their success. I would rather see someone buy a slower machine with a good distributor nearby then a typhoon with no distributor if the owner is not hands on. Im not sure where Oasis has or does not have distributors. Its definitely something to check into and think about when purchasing a 200-300K machine.

 

[Blanco]

I wonder if you need a water pressure regulating system to help keep the water pressure high enough for the Typhoon and any other equipment you have on site.

You do not. If you have just a IBA with at least a 1" city supply at 40-50psi you will be fine. If you have self serve bays also then you will need a 2" supply. Pretty standard for car washes. Remember your HP pumps only run for about 30% of the wash and there is a 60 or 90 gallon holding tank depending on what your order. The HP pumps draw from the holding tank and are not direct feeds from your water supply like the booster pump. Your holding tank will be fed with a 1" line.

BTW you didn't have to tell me your a engineer. I can tell!
Don't take that wrong way. Its a good thing. Very throughout.

 

[GreenMachine]

Has anyone converted their long IBA to a mini tunnel? Watched a Sonny's presentation about converting an IBA to a mini tunnel (anywhere from 43' to 65'). An interesting idea as they suggested that by using a belt system (instead of chain) you could run 24-7 unattended. Personally I think it would be a huge liability especially after watching customers try to navigate a soft cloth with railings for guides.

mini tunnels do not clean as well as a IBA so you would need to pre wash the bugs and other stuff off first and now you got the labor cost and that’s not cheap, you would need at least 4 employees to run it properly. I got into the carwash business Not to have employees. I have a single employe and he can run it all by themselves on a part time salary. It’s a great thought but people are the problem and then you are no longer a 24-7-365 operation. I would love to see a unattended mini tunnel for a week before I would even consider it. Not a established one a brand new one and watch all the people try to figure it out. Most of the damage that I get on my automatic is people screwing up and that you can count on. I would suggest a pair of wax and Ro arches for the IBA, with that you can probably can loose a min or two off your wash times and save the equiptment 2 passes. That’s what I did and it works great and much less equipment repair, i cut it down by 40% so far.

 

[MEP001]

mini tunnels do not clean as well as a IBA

How did you come to this conclusion?

you would need at least 4 employees to run it properly.

Express exterior washes run with 1-2 employees. Why would a mini tunnel need more?

I would love to see a unattended mini tunnel for a week before I would even consider it. Not a established one a brand new one and watch all the people try to figure it out.

So do you have it figured out? If so, why not share how to do it?

 

[MGSMN]

Has anyone converted their long IBA to a mini tunnel? Personally I think it would be a huge liability especially after watching customers try to navigate a soft cloth with railings for guides.

The liability issue would keep me up at night. Tunnel controllers do not have all the safety logic that most IBA's have. Most IBA's will either stop, reset or shut down in most cases when something unexpected occurs. Tunnels don't work that way. If you have electric driven brushes you have some protection in that at least that brush will stall/overload and retract if its able to and not still tangled in some sort of rack. That won't stop the conveyor or any of the other tunnel equipment. If a tunnel wash is truly unattended (stand alone wash), who would be there to push the E-STOP in an emergency situation? That is the only way to stop everything. I sure wouldn't want the person who is stuck in the wash to get out of the vehicle and run the gauntlet of active machinery to find an E-Stop. I also wouldn't assume any customer would know how.

 

[soonermajic]

How did you come to this conclusion?
Prolly cause, like several of us, he has witnessed it.
Express exterior washes run with 1-2 employees. Why would a mini tunnel need more?
I have seen many EEs, like we all have, & have never seen less than 3. Im sure there are,but never seen it. It's open 70hrs/week, so that's a minimum of 2/3.
So do you have it figured out? If so, why not share how to do it?

He gives great advice, no need to be rude. He also backed it up w/ some facts.
I haveba friend who spend $1.5mil on a mini tunnel 2 yrs ago. He bought their pitch hook, line & sinker. Had CONSTANT customer problems, avgs a whopping 27cpd, & finally hired a fulltime employee & looking for a 2nd.

I think you could shorten the Eclipse model by 20', by removing the wheel scrubbers from the front. Take out inside door, & put the CC/Wax arch & RO Arch in its place, then Tire Shine w/ outside dryers (or inside stand alone). IMHO

 

[MEP001]

He gives great advice, no need to be rude. He also backed it up w/ some facts.

I asked what was IMO legitimate and on-topic questions.

 

[washnshine]

I think you could shorten the Eclipse model by 20', by removing the wheel scrubbers from the front. Take out inside door, & put the CC/Wax arch & RO Arch in its place, then Tire Shine w/ outside dryers (or inside stand alone). IMHO

All good points coach. I would never put wheel and tire scrubbers in that had to be driven through in any layout. Offloading rinses and ccp is what they do with those Autec Express IBAs - and it saves time. I think what the inside door does is give the next customer in line the confidence to fully enter the bay. They feel like the previous car is in the next stage, so they are more likely to pull in without hesitation. I’ve seen many locations that have drive through blowers - even exterior ones, and the next customer will usually wait until the previous car has fully cleared the blower. That slows things down a lot too - as you know. Even with the lights and voice prompts saying “enter now”. They still wait.