Healthy Dialogue about BILL-COIN ATMs

[mjwalsh]

Our over 8 years of unbelievable success with our ATM has motivated me to at least try to lobby for higher denomination coins that could eventually solve a lot of problems. Not the least of ... non customers stealing coins from our ChangeMakers for their apartment house washing machines. Call it lobbying or a healthy dialogue of what I believe is a better long term approach for not just us but also the general public.

Below is what I just posted on one of many general discussion areas of the internet:


This Quora discussion has explained the whys for the deposit part of the equation but the truth be known ... high denomination coins from a proven trouble free hopper dispensed would be helpful to the public. Why … people who truly know better coin acceptance … know for a fact that most vending machines including washers & dryers at laundromats & at self service car washes & also the convenient of bypassing a checkout to get a newspaper… it is much more practical & more reliable that a small paper bill.

Armored car (space-weight) & space required within ATM is a non issue as long as the coin is of high enough denomination. Of course this would be similar to a not that much more costly 2 denomination dispensing of bills … in this case it would be 1 denomination of bill & the highest denomination coin available.

The demand for the coins would be less per transaction would make it so the coin dispensing hopper would not have to be that large. Like what is easily observed … the public would clearly be served better than the 100% cashless trend that some of the banks are forcing down people’s throats. As other posters have shed light on … what I suggest may not work in all ATM locations ... but in some areas it could help solve “lack of coin” availability problems.

100% cashless proponents hide their real motive for being against what I have stated above.

Some may possibly be naive & just not making the best analysis.

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-ATMs-dispense-coins

 

[Axxlrod]

You're fighting an uphill battle. People under 40 do not want to carry bills, and they def do not want to carry around a bunch of coins. I hate carrying coins myself.

The future is cashless, especially when it's linked to a person's phone. Have you been to any Scandanavian countries? They are already doin this. You pay for daily items from your cell phone. Much more convenient than cash or coins.

 

[mjwalsh]

When people come to our facility ... the not carrying cash crowd ... tend to use our $5s dispensing ATM. They tend to get the amount of cash they will use & then a percentage get waterproof coins (2 Standard ChangeMakers). If the ATM gave out both $5s & as an option dollar coins or an even higher denomination coin ... I see that as worthwhile in this part of Rural America. It would eliminate the next step to a changer & possibly as much of a need for changers. Don't get me wrong... I do see some value to the "count up" ... "turn off when done" format on each coin box though.

 

[JGinther]

Our over 8 years of unbelievable success with our ATM...

Do you ever wonder if you would still call it unbelievable success if you compared it to your sales and net income if you had credit card acceptance instead? What do you pay yourself per hour from your business? Have you ever added up the cash handling/collecting hours, and multiplied by your rate, then added in the expenses and time of maintaining the hardware, and fixing the coin jams broken validators or whatever? Then added in the expense of the locks, keys, vandalism, security equipment, and other theft prevention expenses (like not going on vacation!!) and thought, maybe I'm not thinking this through? 3% or 5% or whatever and most of this is gone and the money just shows up in the account... hmm. Vacation sounds nice...

 

[mjwalsh]

JGinther & others,

My main point is that some of us have gone the ATM path of accepting CC-Debit Cards & if so ... it would be helpful if we make it known that many of us would be in favor of ATMs in our areas that would also give out high denomination coins as an option. Based on experience ... it seems it could help others ... especially mom & pop vend operations ... besides just our self service car washes ... such as laundromats that require vastly more receptacles than a car wash.

It sounds like for your specific operation & many others ... your 100% cashless approach makes sense ... I say go for it & make it work ... maybe with fewer problems ... maybe not ....

From my perspective ... the people for 100% cashless exaggerate coin drawbacks & sometimes help inflict less availability of higher denomination coins.

In the end ... it would have to prove to be reasonably profitable for the ATM owners ... which based on my albeit limited over 8 years of ATM ownership ... it would be. Also the coin hopper would be for sure less maintenance than an extra bill denomination canister within the more versatile ATM.

 

[JGinther]

JGinther & others,
...your 100% cashless approach makes sense

We're not 100% cashless, so I don't know where that came from... I dream about it, but the reality is that some washes are in crummy areas where, for half the customers, the only credit card they carry is one they just stole.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

if we make it known that many of us would be in favor of ATMs in our areas

Actually, other than you, I don't know anyone that wants one at a wash. Frankly, I have enough targets. I surely don't want one with several thousand dollars in it. I know it wouldn't have that much, but every crook would think so.

 

[mjwalsh]

Actually, other than you, I don't know anyone that wants one at a wash. Frankly, I have enough targets. I surely don't want one with several thousand dollars in it. I know it wouldn't have that much, but every crook would think so.

I felt the same way as you guys do & then a laundromat NYC operator told about how putting in an ATM was one of the better things he did. He was credible & many other laundromat owners including myself have followed. Time is showing to have been a good decision. Many of the same built in the wall & other considerations as for car wash bill changers do apply. Alarm protection may be slightly different considering but the ATM industry seems to have solutions there.

There is no question in my mind for my area an ATM is a better fit. My wanting a healthy dialogue is just to point out that the ATM could be even better with a high denomination optional coin dispensing hopper. The availability of the high denomination coins tend to be a chick-egg-which-comes first issue. Egg first but the care of the chick is key too.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Have had at least 3 vendors place ATMs at one of my locations only to remove them. With 3 banks within 250 feet they got little action. Thank goodness I never went with a "Lease" program. Many of those were really disguised financing arrangements and Lessees got stuck paying even if the machine was junk or the company went out of business and all the incentives and rebates dried up. When i pointed out this downside to a salesman and he claimed this wouldn't happen I said he should lease it with that agreement and then give me a regular recourse lease - he didn't/

 

[Greg Pack]

I'm going cashless as soon as I can. It will take a big part of the headache of running a wash out of the picture and make semi remote operation more viable . My recent stringer incident has caused quite a bit of time lost and stress added to an already busy schedule. Frankly, in this day and age if a customer doesn't have a debit or credit card I probably don't want them on my lot.

 

[OurTown]

I'm going cashless as soon as I can. It will take a big part of the headache of running a wash out of the picture and make semi remote operation more viable . My recent stringer incident has caused quite a bit of time lost and stress added to an already busy schedule. Frankly, in this day and age if a customer doesn't have a debit or credit card I probably don't want them on my lot.

Greg, about where are you with your CC/cash sales ratio? It would be great to go cashless but might be a long time with our wash. Many times we encourage our customers to use a CC but even though they have them don't want to use them. (at least in our self serve bays) I speculate if you go cashless then your cash customers will either go to another wash that accepts cash or they will be inconvenienced and have to use a card. (or some of both) We don't want either of those scenarios.

 

[JGinther]

Greg, one more good reason that you're not in NYC! https://nypost.com/2020/01/24/cashless-businesses-are-now-banned-in-nyc/
I would love to make those 'lawmakers' run cash heavy car wash for a year in the ghetto! That should be the law! It would probably be fine though, since nobody would have a gun...

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Many people have the mindset that you must have cash for a car wash. Those of you that dispense quarters only increase that assumption. I think we are at least a decade away from cashless. Greg, don’t make a major decision like this on a knee jerk reaction.

 

[mjwalsh]

Greg, about where are you with your CC/cash sales ratio? It would be great to go cashless but might be a long time with our wash. Many times we encourage our customers to use a CC but even though they have them don't want to use them. (at least in our self serve bays) I speculate if you go cashless then your cash customers will either go to another wash that accepts cash or they will be inconvenienced and have to use a card. (or some of both) We don't want either of those scenarios.

I actually had a customer about two years who thought I was entertaining the idea of cashless. Both him & his wife unloaded on me saying that if I did I would no longer have their business. That is when I got an increased sense of how strong feelings can run against 100 % or near 100% cashless.

Many people have the mindset that you must have cash for a car wash. Those of you that dispense quarters only increase that assumption. I think we are at least a decade away from cashless. Greg, don’t make a major decision like this on a knee jerk reaction.

Part of the reason for this post is to possibly see some time in the future higher denomination coins to be the norm within the USA vs just using CC &/or Phone App. Especially when some people vehemently resent having no cash forced down their throats at too many places.

I know in our part of the USA ... sometimes so-called lesser issues can wind up with an anticipated political fervor. In our state ... motorcycle ... recently marijuana ... guns-hunter issues has come to the fore. Don't get me wrong ... I am not for some of the the unanticipated consequences of some of the laws.

I am not for increased numbers of impaired people walking or worse yet driving around town. As a member I recently took advantage of a Chamber of Commerce ND Prison Industries (2 miles away) tour about 1-1/2 weeks ago. Not planned ... but I wound up having two very heady conversations both with the man warden emeritus & the full time woman chaplain. They were both very much against open the door being too wide on the mary jane & synthetic mary jane laws. I was surprised at the newly remodeled & increased capacity of over 700 was already very close to full up. Some of you dern big city folks ... please quit putting some of your trouble makers after you catch them ... on buses to north dakota with one-way tickets!!!

Greg, one more good reason that you're not in NYC! https://nypost.com/2020/01/24/cashless-businesses-are-now-banned-in-nyc/
I would love to make those 'lawmakers' run cash heavy car wash for a year in the ghetto! That should be the law! It would probably be fine though, since nobody would have a gun...

Unintended consequence: Like I have said before ... I really don't want to give up my local closeby ability to zip in & out of Sam's Club Gasoline almost 100% albeit cashless self service station. Not when besides the quickness ... I also get a lower price to begin with & plus 5% back at the end of the year.

Since many banks & credit unions in our area gain a competitive edge by allowing their debit card used for free at all ATMs (regardless of ownership) & I know how quick & reliable our ATM has been for over eight years ... it just seems a natural to have ATMs include a high denomination coin option as one of its outputs. As far as saying the coin hopper space & maintenance costs are high as some yahoos say ... from my experience that is either ignorant or untruthful. BTW ... hopefully the ATMs in some areas do not get greedy & charge more than the $2 per usage that we have charged for over 8 years. Yes ... it does add up to net profit for us ... maybe not in all locations though. Like most other services & commodities ... high volume usage can be diminished by consumer cost.

BTW i fretted in the wrong way in the past when it comes to the 100% objective truthful pertinent reality fact ... GOD came first not the just the chick or the chick egg. So everyone's mind can be put at ease that is no longer the issue other than taking care of the "high denomination coin chick" availability rather than killing the "high denomination coin chick" availability off!

 

[Kramerwv]

Unfortunately I think your dream of the higher denomination coins will remain a dream. There’s a cost to retrofit the machines that both accept and dispense them and the banks share interchange fees with card processing companies and don’t have to handle the transaction as with cash/coin. Lastly, every electronic transaction is copied to the IRS via the issuance of a 1099, thus increasing tax compliance.

 

[sparkey]

I hate going to foreign countries where they have higher denomination coins. Its much more convenient to look through my organized wallet than dig through a hand full of coins in my pocket. I need less coins at the wash not more. When I take quarters to the bank its all the cashier can do to lift the bags most of the time. They usually turn their heads and act busy when I walk in hoping I will pick the next teller.

 

[mjwalsh]

I hate going to foreign countries where they have higher denomination coins. Its much more convenient to look through my organized wallet than dig through a hand full of coins in my pocket. I need less coins at the wash not more. When I take quarters to the bank its all the cashier can do to lift the bags most of the time. They usually turn their heads and act busy when I walk in hoping I will pick the next teller.

My experience in a foreign country was the opposite ... I squirmed that I might have my credit card info compromised ... unnecessarily complicating my life.

 

[mjwalsh]

Lastly, every electronic transaction is copied to the IRS via the issuance of a 1099, thus increasing tax compliance.

One of the reasons why some countries that remember too much power in the hands of too few are resisting 100% cashless such as Germany & others. I have vivid memories of the trey gowdy vs lois lerner fiery exchange that showed serious IRS actual abuses!

 

[Kramerwv]

Also why I was told that fewer and fewer people pay for car wash show trips with 5 and 10 dollar bills. I believe the old guys called that the good old days

 

[Axxlrod]

I actually had a customer about two years who thought I was entertaining the idea of cashless. Both him & his wife unloaded on me saying that if I did they would no longer have their business. That is when I got an increased sense of how strong feelings can run against 100 % or near 100% cashless.

Curious how old those customers were that told you that.

The only people that still prefer to use cash (and write checks at the grocery store) are older people, and well, their days are numbered. Literally.

Ask anybody under the age of 40 if they would prefer to pay via a cashless method (especially apple pay) or via cash from their wallet, and then carry around the change (coins). I think you know the answer.


As to your other point about credit cards numbers being stolen, I was in Italy last year, and my card number did get stolen. I made a 3 minute phone call, and that card was cancelled and a new one sent to my house. Easy-peasy.

I'm in the planning stages of a new express wash, and I do not plan on taking cash at the pay stations. Card only. I get so excited thinking about how that will streamline the payment process, and how much easier it will make life for me to not have to deal with cash.