Help with pre-soak!?

[Semi-retired]

I own and operate three self service car washes one also has a touchless automatic that I have been checking water quality and titration at all locations which are in different cities with different water treatment. The reason for all this is I cannot get the cars clean I assumed it was a pre-soak issue but I have tried going stronger on chemical and cannot seem to get any results I still am getting a cloudy look on the cars that you can wipe with your hand after washing.

I have tried eliminating the certain cycles in the washes like just rinse, presoak, high pressure soap, and rinse with and without wax, same results.

So my question is how strong should I have to go on chemical strength (tested by titration kit) to safely get a clean car? Raise it till I get results or do I need to look into something else first?
Thank you for any experience that may help!

 

[madscientist]

Are you talking about cleaning in the self serve or the automatic? If the automatic, is it touch free?

 

[Semi-retired]

The automatic is touch free and I am having problems in the touchless automatic and the self service bays at all location that is why I think It must be presoak related.

Thanks for your reply

 

[Semi-retired]

The troubles are in a touchless automatic and in all self service bays.
Thanks

 

[MEP001]

You can't get a car completely clean without friction.

Do your washes have foam brush?

I have tried eliminating the certain cycles in the washes like just rinse, presoak, high pressure soap, and rinse with and without wax, same results.

What does that mean exactly? Are you eliminating them as the problem, or are you turning them off in the automatic bay to see if your results improve? Either way it makes no sense.

 

[Semi-retired]

Thanks for the help
I do have foam brushes in the self service bays

I was eliminating processes to try and figure out if maybe the wax or the high pressure soap might have been causing the cloudy look on the vehicles. I did try this on several personal vehicles in the touch free automatic and the self service bays (not on customer cars) with no change in my results.

I have been trying to watch how much pre soak is being used at the highest volume location which is self service. I cannot keep track of which customers use it but I do know I used 30 gallons of presoak on 1834 cars maybe that would tell you how my mix rate is? I just been trying to keep track as much as possible I'm sure there is a better way just let me know I'll do it.

 

[Randy]

It could be a number of things. Whose Touchfree equipment are you using? Whose chemicals are you using?

 

[rph9168]

Is your softener working?

 

[Semi-retired]

I do have foam brush in the self serve bays
I was told the wax could be causing the cloudy look so I tried it without.

Laserwash 4000 and the softner was just tested by the softner repair place because I thought that might be the problem he actually said it was regenerating to often

 

[Semi-retired]

Pre soak is a Gilby product

In your experience where should the titration test be? I have tried any where from 8-15 drops

 

[madscientist]

If wax is causing the problem it's probably because the wax is somehow bleeding into your lines when it shouldn't be, like during the presoak cycle. This could be caused by a bad solenoid. If your cars didn't have the cloudy haze before they came in, then this is possibly the problem. If it's happening at all 3 of your washes in both SS and the automatic bays then it would be a fantastic coincidence, and I would look elsewhere. Presoak that's not strong enough shouldn't create a cloudy finish that wasn't already there. Now if the cloudy finish was there and you don't get it off then you may need a stronger or better presoak.

 

[Semi-retired]

If the customer in the self serve bay used high pressure wax could it effect the presoak for the next customer if no rinse was used in between the two cars.

I've replace the rubber diaphragm on the wax solenoid about a month ago but I will check it.
Thanks for the help!

 

[madscientist]

No, that will not cause the problem. The haze occurs when you simultaneously 1.) Don't clean the dirt off, and 2.) Coat the dirt with something like wax. This happens when you think you are spraying presoak, but you are actually spraying presoak infused with wax.

Once again, if this is happening on all your bays across 3 different locations you probably have a different issue.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

With the automatic you might change your system to allow more dwell time for the presoak to stay on the car to help the cleaning.
I would suggest cleaning out your chemical tanks and try another chemical possibly a "name" brand chemical and put the burden of cleaning the car on the distributor and see what happens.
I would think that if you had wax mixing in your line (bad check valve, etc.) with your presoak/soap the wax would negate the sudsing of the soap.
Is this a "new" problem (spring/summer)?
Because if it is and you have had hot weather your presoak might actually be going on the car to strong. This could cause the presoak to dry somewhat on the car before the customer rinses and/or possibly cause a streaking effect.

 

[MEP001]

I'll suggest again that the problem is the car not getting clean, not something caused by a particular pass. Can you wash a car with the foam brush and have it come completely clean? Is the residue waxy feeling at all, or does it wipe off like a fine powder?

 

[AutoWashMan]

When I use a two step chemical process for a Laserwash I will be around 15-18 drops on my acid and around 30-35 drops on my alkaline.

I learned more about chemicals than I ever knew before when I switched to using Blendco. The rep taught me all about titrations and the cleaning process and I have been cleaning cars better than ever before.

Are you using both high and low pH products?

 

[Mr.Aap]

Check your softner......

 

[Greg Pack]

Discussion of "drops of titration" are meaningless unless we know either what brand of chemical and titration kits, or the types of indicator or titrant.

I found early on that many, many presoaks are too weak to clean effectively at factory recommended levels, at least in my area. I usually run mine much stronger. I would suggest you titrate to maximum recommended strength levels first and see if it works. If it cleans well, you can try backing off until performance decreases, then strengthen back up until it returns. As mentioned , water softness may be an issue in some area. If it does not work, it's time to switch to another brand. Do not wait to run out of your current product, you will alienate customers. You can use any remaining product high ph products as a HP soap.

A good chemical rep would be enormously helpful to a newbie to Touchless IBAs . Don't fool around with this problem without help for long, it's hard to get customers back on the lot once they've had a bad wash. A rep that fixes the problem quickly will save you customers.

 

[dirty harry]

If your water quality is good, then I would look at two other areas. First, I would change the pre-soak and see if the problems go away. Inconsistent soap mixes, or a bad drum are not unheard of. The next item I would check would be wax seeping into the mix from a leaking solenoid, but if your Laser and your self service equipment are isolated from each other, then this is probably not the case. Good luck!

 

[rph9168]

A good chemical rep would be enormously helpful to a newbie to Touchless IBAs . Don't fool around with this problem without help for long, it's hard to get customers back on the lot once they've had a bad wash. A rep that fixes the problem quickly will save you customers.

You need to find a knowledgeable, reliable chemical rep. Time is money and bad performance loses customers. You could work on this problem for a long time by yourself without solving it. A good chemical rep should be able to resolve the issue quickly.