Hey 2 Biz…

[cantbreak80]

I finally got busy and installed my freeze protection system today. It took all of 2 hours and one trip to Home Depot!

Well, 5 hours, cause I tested and tinkered and stuff. But the install works as expected.

Thanks for “kicking me in the rear”…shoulda done it last year!

Oh, the “acid test” will be tonight…cold and snow.

 

[2Biz]

Looks great. Hope all that came with a wiring diagram?!?!?

If I get time tomorrow, I'll drag out the video camera and record a freeze protection cycle and post to youtube.

Its really amazing how little Washer Fluid it uses when set right. What did you end up with pressure wise? 30 psi air and 30 psi on the flojet works great for my system...

 

[cantbreak80]

I replaced the old controller...actually 2 FL1Bs (that's old!). They controlled 8 fluid solenoids. A rather clumsy program ran the pump for 30 sec.

The new controller hits 16 solenoids. With the default settings, the pump delivers about 1/4 cup of fluid with the 7 gal/min flojet at 60 psi thru 1/4" poly. Air is set at 30 psi.

 

[2Biz]

As promised....I'll never be a movie director or actor! Its the best I could do..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1aVMAxaVlg&feature=youtu.be

 

[sparkey]

Can you give us a rundown of how your timing sequence works? How cold have you tested your system?

 

[2Biz]

The Idec is activated when the weepmizer secondary output reaches 33°. Each bay is winterized (1) bay at a time with 10 seconds of air, 5 seconds of washer fluid, then another 10 seconds of air. Once that is done, the system is idle waiting on input from the Tri-Foam system. Once the customer switches away from Tri-Foam, the Idec waits 10 seconds and runs thru its cycle. Once the weepmizer temp rises above 33°, the system will not cycle.

I've tested the system down to 0°....But that only means I've used the tri-foam effectively at temps down this low. I'm sure the system will cycle below that. I'm just wondering at what temperature the Tri-Foam freezes in a bare hose before reaching the nozzel. But we all know, nobody washes when its that cold anyway.

 

[cantbreak80]

My system was installed on the foam brush system with the same timing sequence. Air blows out the exposed plumbing, followed by washer fluid to "flush" the line. Any residual liquid in the low point should be washer fluid diluted, lowering it's freeze point.

During initial testing, there was maybe an ounce of residual liquid left in the hose. The timing or the delivery pump pressure can be adjusted to increase the washer fluid volume...if necessary.

My previous program simply filled the plumbing with washer fluid...using nearly a quart per bay every time!

I'll be adding a 2 second On-Delay on each FB input. This will prevent a column of foam soap from filling the protected lines when customers rotate thru the FB position on the selector.

 

[Jeff_L]

Any thoughts of doing the same thing for your high pressure wash system as well? One of the cities I have a wash in has very high water costs, so I'm thinking of redesigning my system this next summer in prep for next winter. Would the same concept apply?

(Yes, I understand the customer will have to wait for the hose to fill back up and measures could be done to reduce that wait time.)

 

[cantbreak80]

It can and has been done with hp systems...with one caveat. IF any of your low pressure product solenoids leak into the bay hose, that bay will be frozen in short order.

For example, one bay's spot free rinse solenoid doesn't fully seat. Any other bay that is turned on to sfr will send water down that bay's plumbing. The bay that was used gets anti-freeze treatment and the one with the leaking solenoid will freeze. Same with low pressure products delivered thru the hp gun...FROZEN because of a leaky solenoid valve.

 

[MEP001]

Any thoughts of doing the same thing for your high pressure wash system as well? One of the cities I have a wash in has very high water costs, so I'm thinking of redesigning my system this next summer in prep for next winter. Would the same concept apply?

(Yes, I understand the customer will have to wait for the hose to fill back up and measures could be done to reduce that wait time.)

I had something already in place that I was able to use as a blowdown for the boom and high-pressure hose. I noticed purely by accident when working on something that with the bay hose empty, the low-pressure functions reach the gun much faster and without being diluted by water. The high-pressure only takes a second to fill the hose.

I had thought about a similar blowdown and purge instead of a weep system, but for it to work the way I want I'll have to build a heated trough on the roof for the lines.

 

[2Biz]

I have a heated trough and don't know if I'd trust it. Even the tiniest amount of water that freezes in the right place will plug the hose up. CB80 gave some good scenarios. But then again, if my water rates were high, I might consider testing it on a single bay before switching over the whole wash.

 

[2Biz]

Interesting....I was just informed by "Comment" on Youtube that PFG has a patent on the "System" and that it was "Amazing how people steal good ideas"....

So I'm wondering how to take this?

 

[Jeff_L]

I had something already in place that I was able to use as a blowdown for the boom and high-pressure hose. I noticed purely by accident when working on something that with the bay hose empty, the low-pressure functions reach the gun much faster and without being diluted by water. The high-pressure only takes a second to fill the hose.

I had thought about a similar blowdown and purge instead of a weep system, but for it to work the way I want I'll have to build a heated trough on the roof for the lines.

That's a nice side effect really. I suppose since the LP doesn't have to use energy to push the water out of the hose it would come through quicker. Might not be bad to blow down all year round if there is a measurable time difference.

I may put a rudimentary system together for one bay even this winter to see how/if I get the results I want.

 

[Jeff_L]

Interesting....I was just informed by "Comment" on Youtube that PFG has a patent on the "System" and that it was "Amazing how people steal good ideas"....

So I'm wondering how to take this?

I'll preface that I'm not an attorney, but I don't think there is anything to worry about. What kind of patent do they have? Utility? You're using off the shelf parts to build something, not sure how that can be infringement.

 

[MEP001]

That's a nice side effect really. I suppose since the LP doesn't have to use energy to push the water out of the hose it would come through quicker. Might not be bad to blow down all year round if there is a measurable time difference.

I was already putting a programmable relay in place that controls a common air solenoid for tire cleaner and presoak, so it was just a matter of adding a couple of blocks to the program to make it a purge. It's on year 'round.

 

[MEP001]

Interesting....I was just informed by "Comment" on Youtube that PFG has a patent on the "System" and that it was "Amazing how people steal good ideas"....

So I'm wondering how to take this?

If you could patent an idea, then I'm sure my posting my thoughts on such a blowdown system on this forum years before theirs came out would be proof in a lawsuit against them.

 

[2Biz]

That's a nice side effect really. I suppose since the LP doesn't have to use energy to push the water out of the hose it would come through quicker. Might not be bad to blow down all year round if there is a measurable time difference.

I may put a rudimentary system together for one bay even this winter to see how/if I get the results I want.

I can see CANTBREAK80's gears turning now! Another Idec Programmable Relay!

 

[cantbreak80]

From now on, I’m gonna apply for “idea patents” for all of my ideas…even the bad ideas. And, everyone better watch out because I intend to sic my idea attorney on every infringer!

(The people at the patent office aren’t allowed to laugh at the applicant…are they?)

 

[2Biz]

I went ahead and took the video off youtube...I was threatened again....I don't need the hassel...

 

[I.B. Washincars]

PFG may have been the first to patent it, but I have had a Mark VII system that works the same way for 23 years. Wonder where PFG got the "idea"?