High Pressure Floats

[washregal]

Hello -

Have been using Hudson valves for high pressure floats / Water Rinse tanks for self service - however when they fail it is catastrophic - is there a better solution in regard to float valves that is recommended? I believe at this pint would be fine with a slow leaking valve over time - replace say once a year? What solutions are out there that are highly recommended?

 

[MEP001]

FWIW I use the 1" Walters. They last at least a couple years between rebuilds, sometimes much longer. I've never seen one fail catastrophically, except at car washes run by idiots who keep bending the rod until the float gets up under the valve and floats the wrong way. The 1/2" and 3/4" don't have a stainless seat and don't last as long. You need a 3/4" threaded pipe for the outlet to keep the water from cascading, which will wear it out faster. If your tank is small, you can bend the rod into an "S" to shorten it, and it'll work fine. When they go bad, it will leak slowly and give you plenty of notice.

 

[OurTown]

I believe this is the one we use and when it "goes" it just leaks a bit. It has been years since I replaced the seals in it and just last week it started leaking. I closed the inlet ball valve, drained the tank and then turned the ball valve on and let it fill with the float all the way down. It must have been some sediment in it because it returned to normal tank height ever since.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-1990-bob-valves-r400-1-brass-float-valve-1-in-mnpt.aspx

 

[Greg Pack]

tried the hudson since it was an easy solution for my hydrominder tank with no good place to mount a Jobe. and have dropped them after the third catastrophic failure.

I've had decent luck with Jobe, but have had the tabs break on the quick change out design. I'm probably going to change out every few years regardless. At two cents per gallon a valve failure can easily cost me several hundred dollars so a fresh valve every few years isnt the worst idea.

I'm starting to put 24VAC sprinkler valves behind all my float valves for redundancy. I'm tying into the motor contactors coil or another 24VAC source that limits flow to while the machine is operational.

Also a good idea to make sure your PRV is working and incoming pressure is restricted to 50-75 psi

 

[2Biz]

I've used Walters for years and just replaced one this week in my heated gravity tank. I really don't know how many years it was installed but it was more than 2-3 years....When they fail, they just drip and over-flow the tank over night. Never catestrophic. They do give you a lot of warning like Mep mentioned. Origianally, I bought a new diaghram and new pilot valve to maybe rebuild one. But the valves last so long they are pretty corroded by the time they fail and virtually impossible to rebuild. Much easier to just replace the whole valve.

Ourtown....I've had my eye on the 1" BOB valve for a possible replacement for the Walters. Looks to be a very simple design and easy to replace the plunger and or seats. The plunger can be changed without taking the valve out of the tank which I like....BUT, the reason I switched to Walters is because it is a 2 stage valve. It eliminates water hammer and sloshing in the tank but is a lot more complex and so far impossible to repair unless you did it on a yearly schedule? But you have to remove the valve to do so, a PITA....So curious, do you have any issues with water hammer and sloshing using the Bob Valve?? Do you put a PVC pipe on the outlet down into the tank? I put one on my Walters with a Tee about 3" off the bottom and there is absolutely no sloshing in the tank...

BTW, Zoro has the 1" Bob for $48....A bit of savings over KR or CWSS...Its hard for me to switch to something else when what I have works ok...But if the Bob valve lasts longer and could possibly be rebuilt without removing the valve from the tank, I may have to give one a try?! That is IF it doesn't create a wave pool!

Bob Float Valve, 1 in., Pipe, Brass, MNPT R400-1 | Zoro

 

[OurTown]

Also a good idea to make sure your PRV is working and incoming pressure is restricted to 50-75 psi

Good point and I should have mentioned we have pretty low pressure (40 psi) after the backflow preventer.

 

[OurTown]

Ourtown....I've had my eye on the 1" BOB valve for a possible replacement for the Walters. Looks to be a very simple design and easy to replace the plunger and or seats. The plunger can be changed without taking the valve out of the tank which I like....BUT, the reason I switched to Walters is because it is a 2 stage valve. It eliminates water hammer and sloshing in the tank but is a lot more complex and so far impossible to repair unless you did it on a yearly schedule? But you have to remove the valve to do so, a PITA....So curious, do you have any issues with water hammer and sloshing using the Bob Valve?? Do you put a PVC pipe on the outlet down into the tank? I put one on my Walters with a Tee about 3" off the bottom and there is absolutely no sloshing in the tank...

BTW, Zoro has the 1" Bob for $48....A bit of savings over KR or CWSS...Its hard for me to switch to something else when what I have works ok...But if the Bob valve lasts longer and could possibly be rebuilt without removing the valve from the tank, I may have to give one a try?! That is IF it doesn't create a wave pool!

No hammer.
No sloshing.
No wave pool.

 

[OurTown]

Another thing I want to point is that we get a fair amount of sediment in the bottom of the tank that looks like fine sand. Do you guys get that in your tank? Surely that wears on the seals.

 

[2Biz]

I get a little bit of sand in the bottom of my float tanks, but don't remember it being bad enough to ever clean out. I've had my new tanks installed for about 10 years. I have mushroom screen filters in the bottom of my tanks for each bay, so I'm sure this helps keep any sand out of the HP pumps and don't think it has ever affected the Walters float valves. The Walters has a pilot actuated diaphram, so it has a pretty tiny hole in the center of it to go full flow.

I went ahead and ordered the 1" Bob valve from Zoro. The hook is set! I also found this:

Zoro Select Float Valve, MNPT Connection Type, 1" R400-1-7 | Zoro

Interesting it has the same manufacture number with a 7 at the end? So I ordered one of those too to see what the difference is? Its only $29.29!

Ourtown, do you know what size float (ball) and length rod arm you are using? Any reference to a 1" valve says to use a 6" ball? A 5" would work better for me for the water level I set and clearance to the lid. Just wondering what you are using? For this design, the float ball would have to put a certain amount of pressure on the seat to seal. The length rod will also make a difference. I can't think 1" diameter would make that much difference. I have 20" from my tank coupler to the other end of the tank.

 

[OurTown]

Ourtown, do you know what size float (ball) and length rod arm you are using? Any reference to a 1" valve says to use a 6" ball? A 5" would work better for me for the water level I set and clearance to the lid. Just wondering what you are using? For this design, the float ball would have to put a certain amount of pressure on the seat to seal. The length rod will also make a difference. I can't think 1" diameter would make that much difference. I have 20" from my tank coupler to the other end of the tank.

No but I'll try to remember to measure it today.

 

[2Biz]

Thx! And sorry the OP's thread is sort of highjacked. But there is usefull information in our posts that helps decide what is a good alternative to the Hudson. I have never saw a post where anyone likes them for the same reasons of catestrophic failure or failure to fill.

 

[OurTown]

@2Biz It looks like we have a 7" diameter float ball and maybe a 3 1/2" or 4" long arm.

 

[2Biz]

Thanks for checking on that! Much appreciated! Looks like some age on that valve?!

 

[OurTown]

Thanks for checking on that! Much appreciated! Looks like some age on that valve?!

The valve is between 6 years old (when we bought the wash) and 20 years old. (wash was built)

 

[2Biz]

So there ya go.....We have a winner!! Lol

 

[2Biz]

Zoro has super fast shipping! Just ordered the valves yesterday and recieved them this morning...Had a chance to measure every machined dimension of the two valves I linked to and they are within .001" of each other. The only difference is the BOB branded valve has BOB casted into the casting! The cheaper one doesn't have any branding casted in. Plus you get a 12" rod with the cheaper one! LOL...

I would think you could keep 2 spare plungers and 2 seat/cup kits and you'd be golden for many years! For cheap!

The only other issue I have and one to point out is I have copper pipe supplying the SS gravity tanks...I welded in a 1" SS NPT fitting that I connect the copper pipe and a Brass 1" coupler to. I get a little bit of Galvanic Corrosion deposits (dis-similar Metals) in the brass coupler and the brass valves. So might not hurt to take them off every 3-5 years to check for corrosion...Sometimes it can be cleaned up without destroying the base metal.

I also took a picture of the amount of sand in my cold water gravity tank...I have never cleaned them out, 10 + years....

 

[2Biz]

Galvanic Corrosion...

 

[OurTown]

Galvanic Corrosion...

At least stainless is more noble than brass. (the easily replaceable part)

 

[MEP001]

That looks like calcium buildup to me.

 

[2Biz]

Calcium deposits are usually associated with "Hard" water. I soften all incoming water to Zero Grains, so unlikely in my case. The plumbing at the float tank consists of copper, SS, and brass. Even though these dissimilar metals are close together in the Galvanic Index, they will still form corrosion. Luckily it forms in the brass which can easily be changed out..