Hot water heater?

[goodingcarwash]

Over the years we’ve converted most of our customers to low pressure foaming guns for Pre-soak, Tire, Bug, Desalt, etc.

Low pressure products, delivered thru a separate foam gun, has many benefits:

• Much quicker product delivery to the gun
• Much better show and coverage for the customer…you can’t get quality foam thru a high-pressure nozzle.
• NO CHECK VALVES required when properly installed.

Caveat…If you’re in a cold weather location you’ll need a freeze protection strategy.

Water weep doesn’t always work well on foam guns due to the large nozzles…in fact, it will likely reduce weep volume to the high pressure guns and then, you’ll regret the conversion.

Air-Blow-Out will work as long as there are no hose loops below the stored gun holders. Residual moisture will almost always collect and freeze in the loop.

Adding methanol to the blended product will work but your Fire Marshal won’t be happy with all that flammable material in the equipment room. Sadly, nobody seems to manufacture “winter formula” Pre-Soak or Tire Cleaner.

A PLC-based freeze protection control system is expensive to build and involves considerable wiring modifications.

Some basic bay parts from KR
Hose mount
Foam Gun
Foam gun nozzle

View attachment 9916 View attachment 9917 View attachment 9918 View attachment 9919

That loop in the slinky hose is that an issue or is it just an issue if the hose looks like your hp hose? Thats how I'm going to set mine up atleast for the short term. Is there a simple solution to the blow down or is it pretty much going to require a plc?

 

[cantbreak80]

The lowest point of the bay supply hoses will freeze…unless you can figure out a way to evacuate 100% of the residual moisture in the hose. Since liquids always find their own level, the loop will always collect the residual moisture.

Air-blow-out alone will only work reliably if the gun or brush are the lowest point of the assembly.

A reliable automatic freeze protection system requires a method to replace the residual moisture with a lower freeze point solution…winter formula windshield washer fluid works quite well.

How to do it without some sort of controller? I wish I knew.

 

[goodingcarwash]

I'm thinking of trying air hose quick connects at the boom end of the lp functions. It would kinda double as a swivel and would make it easy to remove before a cold spell.
I'm also thinking about using relay matrix for my hp pumps, right now I use 3 row rotary switches the 3rd row used to control the hot/cold solenoid valves. I want to use more affordable/available 2 row, and I was considering relay matrix for hot/cold. But I'm thinking if I use them on the hp it could have many benefits. I can use hvac delay things to keep my pumps from short cycling when customers skip over lp functions. It would take the load off the bay timers/switches, im not sure how much those large 3 phase relays pull but it seems like alot. If I use relays for hp soap and wax I could even eliminate the need for the second row of the rotary switch. Potentially allowing twice the service life of the switch by just using 1 row at a time? Anyone done this?
As for a blow down I plan on adding service ports to everything and blowing out, pumping wf then blowing out again like randy dose. Just manually shutting down if I have 2 or more days below freezing. If i have too many issues ill reconsider a automatic solution.

 

[goodingcarwash]

The "Old School" answer would be yes....But using a typical 2506 nozzle rated for 1200psi pump pressure, running presoak off a flojet or possibly a procon pump will not give the best flow rates. You could use a second regulator and solenoid, but that is a lot to install when it can be done a lot easier!..."New School"...You might try plumbing both PS and TC to your foam gun using either a flojet or procon. I use a FJ...Plenty of volumn at 60psi air pressure when running through a ~5050 nozzle. Flojets tend to last me about 5 years... You could do it without the use of CV's because the nozzle size on a foam gun is much bigger and less restrictive. You won't get backfeed on multiple lines plumbed to the same manifold like you would if using a HP manifold. Flow will take the path of least resistance.

CantBreak80 mentioned all this in his post above...I took his advice Years ago and have never regretted a single second!

How would you go about T ing in all the low pressure functions to the foam cannon? Could the be teed at the solenoid valves or should they be T'd at the foam generator?[/QUOTE]

 

[2Biz]

The one on the left is for my foam gun...PS, TF, Washer fluid and air.....The one on the right is for FB....FB Soap, Washer fluid, and air. Both foamers are located in the trough above each bay. The one for FB has Stainless Steel dish scrubbers in the pipe section to help generate foam...It works very good at making thick rich foam! The one on the left has a small SS spring in the pipe section...The spring and small pipe section was original that came with the TF Dultimier system when new. While it works ok, I am planning on experimenting using the foamers on the right at some point...I'd like for the TF and PS to foam just a little more. The smaller pipe and spring has its limits. As you can see I like using SMC push connect fittings! Thanks to CantBreak80 for suggesting them. I've never had a failure!

 

[cantbreak80]

2Biz, Thanks for the acknowledgement. Here's another way:

We’ve used these push-to-connect fittings for many years…for foam gun & brush installations.
Manifold
3/8" Plug
1/4" Plug

Because we operate in a cold climate, each assembly is installed in the heated plumbing trough, directly above the bay.
The foam guns/brushes are protected with air-blow-out/antifreeze injection. Therefore, our PVC foam generators can be installed in the bays.

We run 1/4" LLDPE tubing for air, liquids, and windshield washer fluid from the equipment to the bay. And 3/8” LLDPE tubing from the triple tee to the foam generator. PP3/8 & PP1/4 plugs are installed in any unused ports.

Got more than one or two products to the gun? Connect 2 triple tees with 3/8” LLDPE tubing. TaDa!

 

[2Biz]

Wow, thanks for the tip CB80....I was suspecting a high price for these, but not too bad at all. Definetley would save some money and time putting a manifold together!

PKVG3/8-1/4 | PISCO PLASTIC MANIFOLD PUSH-IN FITTING<BR>3/8" TUBE(2) X 1/4" TUBE(6) DBL TRIPLE UNION BRANCH | The Pneumatic Store

 

[goodingcarwash]

2Biz, Thanks for the acknowledgement. Here's another way:

We’ve used these push-to-connect fittings for many years…for foam gun & brush installations.
Manifold
3/8" Plug
1/4" Plug

Because we operate in a cold climate, each assembly is installed in the heated plumbing trough, directly above the bay.
The foam guns/brushes are protected with air-blow-out/antifreeze injection. Therefore, our PVC foam generators can be installed in the bays.
View attachment 9934 View attachment 9933
We run 1/4" LLDPE tubing for air, liquids, and windshield washer fluid from the equipment to the bay. And 3/8” LLDPE tubing from the triple tee to the foam generator. PP3/8 & PP1/4 plugs are installed in any unused ports.

Got more than one or two products to the gun? Connect 2 triple tees with 3/8” LLDPE tubing. TaDa!

And you use those manifolds above the bay or in the equipment room?

 

[cantbreak80]

Above the bay delivers product to the gun/brush in about 5 seconds.

Here's an example--- foam gun Triple-Double manifold for 4 products, air, and "secret sauce".
You can use it for tri-foam, pre-soak, tire cleaner, wax, bug/desalt, etc.
Any unused port can be plugged with PP1/4.



Here's a foam brush Triple-Single manifold...soap, air, and "secret sauce".

 

[Mississippi Carwash Dude]

Above the bay delivers product to the gun/brush in about 5 seconds.

Here's an example--- foam gun Triple-Double manifold for 4 products, air, and "secret sauce".
You can use it for tri-foam, pre-soak, tire cleaner, wax, bug/desalt, etc.
Any unused port can be plugged with PP1/4.
View attachment 9936


Here's a foam brush Triple-Single manifold...soap, air, and "secret sauce".
View attachment 9937

Great setup, but what is the secret sauce?

 

[Mississippi Carwash Dude]

Over the years we’ve converted most of our customers to low pressure foaming guns for Pre-soak, Tire, Bug, Desalt, etc.

Low pressure products, delivered thru a separate foam gun, has many benefits:

• Much quicker product delivery to the gun
• Much better show and coverage for the customer…you can’t get quality foam thru a high-pressure nozzle.
• NO CHECK VALVES required when properly installed.

Caveat…If you’re in a cold weather location you’ll need a freeze protection strategy.

Water weep doesn’t always work well on foam guns due to the large nozzles…in fact, it will likely reduce weep volume to the high pressure guns and then, you’ll regret the conversion.

Air-Blow-Out will work as long as there are no hose loops below the stored gun holders. Residual moisture will almost always collect and freeze in the loop.

Adding methanol to the blended product will work but your Fire Marshal won’t be happy with all that flammable material in the equipment room. Sadly, nobody seems to manufacture “winter formula” Pre-Soak or Tire Cleaner.

A PLC-based freeze protection control system is expensive to build and involves considerable wiring modifications.

Some basic bay parts from KR
Hose mount
Foam Gun
Foam gun nozzle

View attachment 9916 View attachment 9917 View attachment 9918 View attachment 9919

Wow, What tire foam do you use? Im in Mississippi.

 

[2Biz]

Great setup, but what is the secret sauce?

Before CB80 has a chance to respond....Here is a post (post #64) that tells you what "Secret Sauce" is! CB80 came up with the term when I was threatened for copyright infringement by Polar Freeze Gaurd for putting a video on youtube showing my winterizing system, "Home Brew"! Another CB80 term! LOL....All credit goes to CB80 for the Home Brew Secret Sauce System! I was just a good student! I believe PFG is no longer in business....Their website is no longer active. The thread below has a lot of valuable information on how to design and automate your winterizing system while saving $$$Thousands$$$ every winter v/s weeping water!

Programmable Relay or PLC

2Biz, I disassembled that rascal and found the shuttle valve "bumpers" broken. The shaft over-travelled and locked. It's not a serviceable part...I can't even figure out how the factory assembles them!?! At least I now have spare viton diaphragms and check valves in case they're ever...

www.carwashforum.com

 

[cantbreak80]

Wow, What tire foam do you use? Im in Mississippi.

Dude,
I believe that picture is either CSI Lustra or Blue Coral foaming tire cleaner.
Any quality product should produce similar results.
Our Quest Car Care Products customers are happy with their Ultra Green 3XC.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Wow, What tire foam do you use? Im in Mississippi.

Not as foamy here but without needing foamers or foam gun. KR Kleen White product.

 

[Noob]

80,
I also use a foam gun for all of my low pressure function but my tire cleaner does not foam anywhere near as good as yours. I’m not using any kind of foam generator. In your opinion does that make a big difference in foaming ability?

Over the years we’ve converted most of our customers to low pressure foaming guns for Pre-soak, Tire, Bug, Desalt, etc.

Low pressure products, delivered thru a separate foam gun, has many benefits:

• Much quicker product delivery to the gun
• Much better show and coverage for the customer…you can’t get quality foam thru a high-pressure nozzle.
• NO CHECK VALVES required when properly installed.

Caveat…If you’re in a cold weather location you’ll need a freeze protection strategy.

Water weep doesn’t always work well on foam guns due to the large nozzles…in fact, it will likely reduce weep volume to the high pressure guns and then, you’ll regret the conversion.

Air-Blow-Out will work as long as there are no hose loops below the stored gun holders. Residual moisture will almost always collect and freeze in the loop.

Adding methanol to the blended product will work but your Fire Marshal won’t be happy with all that flammable material in the equipment room. Sadly, nobody seems to manufacture “winter formula” Pre-Soak or Tire Cleaner.

A PLC-based freeze protection control system is expensive to build and involves considerable wiring modifications.

Some basic bay parts from KR
Hose mount
Foam Gun
Foam gun nozzle

View attachment 9916 View attachment 9917 View attachment 9918 View attachment 9919

 

[Keno]

We just added tire to our LP gun with the manifolds cantbreak80 posted, was pretty quick and easy with those.

 

[cantbreak80]

80,
I also use a foam gun for all of my low pressure function but my tire cleaner does not foam anywhere near as good as yours. I’m not using any kind of foam generator. In your opinion does that make a big difference in foaming ability?

I have found foamers useful for smoothing the output of the foam gun when using air-powered pumps.
Foam generators won't improve the quality of foam if the chemical's dilution ratio is weak.

Case in point...
A client reported poor quality foam show and sputtering output from the foam guns.
We found several issues including:
1. hard water (repaired the water softener)
2. leaking Hydrominder 511 vacuum breaker diluting the solution tanks (rebuilt the vacuum breaker)
3. failed foot valve resulting in weak chemical dilution