Don't know why it's taking me that long to address this issue but the low pressure products (tire cleaner, presoak, and spotfree) takes 45 seconds or more to reach the furthest bay. Currently our setup is: all diluted products sits above pump stand and all have solenoids pre-pump. wax and soap tied to pump on inlet side, tire cleaner, spotfree, presoak tied to pump on outlet side with check valves. Spotfree and presoak deliver products via booster pumps and tire cleaner uses a flowjet air pump. I am thinking to relocate all three low pressure to above each bay. Is it just a matter of moving low pressure product blocks and check valves to above bays and extend feed lines? If so, can I use poly tubing?
Improving products delivery to bay
- Thread starter HCW
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tdlconceptsllc
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I have a 10 bay SS and I honestly am not a fan by any means of having all the solinods above each bay so much harder to troubleshoot and they get abused by weather,sun/UV, chemicals. I personally can't wait to get all my LO pressure setups in a nice warm clean equipment room where I can see all the solinods together and troubleshoot them in 10 seconds instead of going to each bay with a 10ft ladder looking for leaks bad solinods,check valves and having leaky tire cleaner and presoak running down your hands and arms to your armpits a true enjoyment should I say.. I would maybe try a different approach bigger delivery pump, a higher volume flow jet and chemical hose size 1/4 VS 3/8 can make a difference also. Tell us how many bays you have and what's the GPM and psi of your flowjet and other delivery pump see if we can guide you in a different way. Ya you might shave off 10-15 seconds by having the solinods directly above in each bay but it's so not worth it in my humble opinion. I can't wait for the luxury one day at my site to have everything in the equipment room. I would build me a low pressure system for each product and mount in equipment room and run the poly tubing for each product to each bay get a air logics LO pressure or national pride or something simlar or make one yourself with kip valves and blocks
Only wanting to relocate low pressure blocks(W/check valves) to over bays. Solenoids will remain where they're at.
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
From each equipment room solenoid, plumb 1/4" PE tubing to above each bay’s ceiling drop.
Add a 3/8” Tee or Cross (Brass or Stainless) to each bay’s high pressure hose…again, above the ceiling drop.
Thread your 1/4" x 3/8” fittings to the new “injection fitting”…along with high pressure check valves.
Now, each bay’s low pressure product must only displace the liquid from the ceiling to the trigger gun…Resulting in much faster delivery to the customer.
Caveat…This also requires a heated plumbing chase to prevent the low pressure lines from freezing.
So, the answers to your questions are: Yes and Yes.
Add a 3/8” Tee or Cross (Brass or Stainless) to each bay’s high pressure hose…again, above the ceiling drop.
Thread your 1/4" x 3/8” fittings to the new “injection fitting”…along with high pressure check valves.
Now, each bay’s low pressure product must only displace the liquid from the ceiling to the trigger gun…Resulting in much faster delivery to the customer.
Caveat…This also requires a heated plumbing chase to prevent the low pressure lines from freezing.
So, the answers to your questions are: Yes and Yes.
Earl Weiss
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Me, same as MEP so the lines are full of product to above the bay. The delay should just be for the solution to go from above the bay, displace whatever is in the hose and reach the tip. Not sure if this would happen quicker if you ran 3/8 poly or 1/4 poly to the manifold above the bay. My guess is the 3/8 could deliver more product to displace what is in the hose, but the nozzle is likely of a size that the 1/4 poly will deliver the max amount the nozzle will discharge anyway.
Just making sure before I place the order with KR, 1/4" outside diameter correct? Part number HF0540 And PTN100N from kleen rite.
I went through this exercise a few years back...You might research pressure loss using 1/4 PE tubing v/s using 3/8". There are a few online calculators to help determine the difference. There is about 6 times the pressure loss using 1/4" v/s 3/8" for a given length run. From memory there is about 30 psi drop in 100 ft with 1/4" and 5 psi drop in the same length using 3/8"....I originally had 1/4" PE going to my bays....Switching it all out to 3/8" made a huge difference.
Something else to consider, you're trying to push LP through a very small nozzle...Like a 2506....It takes a lot of pressure to get any performance through this size tip....What I did (at Cantbreak80's suggestion!) is take all LP (TF and PS) and run it through a foam gun...They typically use a larger nozzle like a 4040 so you get a lot better performance with lower pressure. Plus PS will foam if you run it through a foam generator...Customers loved it when I made the change. You could do the same thing except put PS and TC on the same gun. It also allows you to eliminate CV's associated with PS and TC...Just more to consider depending on how far you want to go with this!
Something else to consider, you're trying to push LP through a very small nozzle...Like a 2506....It takes a lot of pressure to get any performance through this size tip....What I did (at Cantbreak80's suggestion!) is take all LP (TF and PS) and run it through a foam gun...They typically use a larger nozzle like a 4040 so you get a lot better performance with lower pressure. Plus PS will foam if you run it through a foam generator...Customers loved it when I made the change. You could do the same thing except put PS and TC on the same gun. It also allows you to eliminate CV's associated with PS and TC...Just more to consider depending on how far you want to go with this!
Here's the foam generators I made up that goes in the trough above each bay. The one on the left is TF and PS with Washer Fluid and Air blowdown...The one on the right is FB with Washer Fluid and Air blowdown...If you are curious, there is SS media in the small tubing for TF and PS...The tubing on the right also has SS scrubbie in the long tube...Both versions makes good foam...
From left to right, air, presoak, tire cleaner (or vice versa), hp, spotfree?How I like to do it:
If so, one check valve is sufficient for, tc,ps? And solenoids will keep them from back flowing to each other?
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I.B. Washincars
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Pipes will be cut in half and a sleeve will go over at the end of the two halfs. Not sure if it'll work but worth a try.
More options for you! I did my outside truck bay using this method...The cap I made just snaps into place. In the attic, I cut a 1.5"-2" wide strip down the entire length of the 5" pipe. Right through the connections. Makes for easy install of any tubing or replacing anything in the trough. To insulate, I cut 8' long strips of 4" insulation and stuff it in the pipe to seal it up. No freeze ups since making the change. When I bought the wash, the pipe was solid with only openings above each bay! No insulation...PO complained of freezing up every winter...For the life of me I don't know why the PO's put up with that! Pulling new lines down the entire length of pipe must have been exhausting too!
My low pressure systems are tied into high pressure line out above the boom, like they should be. It doesn’t take but about 15 - 20 seconds for the product to come out the gun. I use a Procon pump on the low pressure Presoak, Tire cleaner, engine cleaner systems, the only Flo-jet pump I have is on the Foam brush system. I run the Procon pump at around 140-150psi with no air injection.
MEP001
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Presoak is on far left, air on center of cross, other 1/4" line is tire cleaner. I prefer one check valve for all three, and it will work as long as none of the pressures are wildly different. Solenoids do not stop backflow, so if you're running Procons you'll need something to prevent backflow. The setup pictured has Flojets always under pressure so no backflow problems, and I prefer a Speedaire regulator on the air line so if the check valve fails the high pressure just bleeds off through the regulator and causes no harm.
MEP001
Well-known member
Since you don't use needle valves your theory would work that way - I like to crank pump pressure up and restrict air and fluid (except for presoak) so 1/4" OD line is plenty for a run up to 120'.
MEP001
Well-known member
Also if you happen to get really obsessed with fast delivery to the gun, you could do what I did which is to use a programmable relay to blow the line from boom to tip with air. I get tire cleaner and presoak to the tip in about four seconds.
Tried to wire PS and TC to air solenoid block but when one product's wire is energized it's back feeding the other. Do I need a relay?
This is the block I am using for air
https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-1973-kip-manifold-blocks-metering-screw-4-outlets.aspx
This is the block I am using for air
https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-1973-kip-manifold-blocks-metering-screw-4-outlets.aspx
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