I am in the process of building a car wash and would like some feedback. I am not new to the business, I owned a full serve a few years back. I have a small location, in a great area. 30,000 CPD 70,000 pop 3 mile rad, no comp, very busy shopping center. Should I go In Bays, or Mini Tunnel? It will not fit express exterior. I am leaning towards the In Bays, I feel they fit the prop much better, much less labor and less expensive. I am concerned about the amount of production, I look forward to all responses......
In Bay vs Express exterior/Mini Tunnel
- Thread starter mobdog69
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captain cw
Member
I have an in-bay express model and love it. I stretched the bay and added off-board arches, off-board dry and tire shiner. Two of those side by side could do a lot of volume and could be open 24/7. You can also charge as much as a conveyor. I'm looking at adding an attendant during my peak hours, just for PR reasons. Good luck
Cap, thanks for the response. I am looking at a very similar set up. How many cpd are you able to thru these machines? My proforma came back pretty strong, 130 cpd 1st year to upwards of 160 cpd year three. I think it was like 41,000 cpy 1st year to 51,000 cpy 3rd year and beyond, can these machines handle that kind of volume? I am pretty sure the location can produce this. I also noticed some EBA operators on this site offering express services. What is your thought on that? Thanks!
PEI
Active member
At 130-160 cpd for an in bay automatic I would recommend that you go with a two iba's. An in bay automatic should do anywhere from 9-15 cars per hour, depending on which piece of equipment you go with. You would be looking at between $200,000 - $300,000 in equipment cost and installation, again depending on what equipment you choose.
You could do 130-160 cpd with a single iba, but you will have to deal with wait times and possibly suffer from large scale drive off during your peak seasons.
I don't know how big your piece of property is, but if you have the room Cap's idea could really serve you well by allowing you to run one bay and saving quite a bit of money upfront.
You could do 130-160 cpd with a single iba, but you will have to deal with wait times and possibly suffer from large scale drive off during your peak seasons.
I don't know how big your piece of property is, but if you have the room Cap's idea could really serve you well by allowing you to run one bay and saving quite a bit of money upfront.
Call me skeptical but I don't put as much credence in pro formas as others do. If you have the room I would look at the mini tunnel or even a normal tunnel. It would probably be close to the cost of two IBA's, may be even less depending on which you choose. The pros of that is the ability to handle any volume you might get with operating costs similar if not even slightly cheaper than two IBA's.
One IBA, even with the expanded version would have a hard time doing anything over 10-12 cph despite what they tell you they are capable of doing. If you decide on the IBA route you would eventually need two if you achieve the projected volume. I would recommend getting one touch free and the other friction. The advantage is that by rotating them during the slow times you can get save on the wear and tear of the machines and if one goes down you are still in business.
There are other things that may need to be considered but not enough space here to go over everything you should be thinking about.
One IBA, even with the expanded version would have a hard time doing anything over 10-12 cph despite what they tell you they are capable of doing. If you decide on the IBA route you would eventually need two if you achieve the projected volume. I would recommend getting one touch free and the other friction. The advantage is that by rotating them during the slow times you can get save on the wear and tear of the machines and if one goes down you are still in business.
There are other things that may need to be considered but not enough space here to go over everything you should be thinking about.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Tough call with marginal numbers if you think the proforma is accurate, but I would probably opt for mini tunnel. It is not fun owning one of those if they do low numbers though (below 4Kcars /month) , but a 70K market in 3 miles with no competition in strong retail center sounds pretty decent. Price difference will not be all that great. The conveyor will put out a better car and have higher throughput when you need it. Also, express operators are much more reluctant to build on top of another express, whereas most don't consider a double auto stiff competition. Only a IBA operator with a financial death wish would build near a well-run conveyor.
How "mini" is min? How long could you make the conveyor?
How "mini" is min? How long could you make the conveyor?
my2cents
Member
If you have the room, a conveyor would be the way to go if you don't mind 1-3 employees on site. The equipment costs would be cheaper than two in bays.
That's just it with the mini tunnel you need more labor. I think the building cost is also higher with the tunnel as well. When I run the numbers and add in the extra cost, it seems the IBA's are the way to go. I was just concerned about throughput. I don't think there are going to be any EE within a three mile due to zonning and lack of space. Can a Mini be run unmaned? Or can a mini be run as an EE with limited vacs?
Waxman
Super Moderator
If the egress is very good, why not build conveyorized or do what RPH says 1 of each touchfree and friction?
Sounds as though competition, population and c.p.d. are right on.
Sounds as though competition, population and c.p.d. are right on.
I have a good friend who is in the Raleigh NC market. He has told on many occasions that the car wash market is very over built. He has been trying for sometime to sell out but no one can get financing. I’ve never put much stock in proforma’s they always look good on paper but never seem to materialize in the real world.
my2cents
Member
Never ever run a conveyor without a person on site. Even gas/convenience stores have cashiers on site. A mini can be set up as an EE, but remember that EE's are usually equipped with equipment that reduces or eliminates prep. A short tunnel will not have that luxury but an attendant can do some minor prep and maintain the site without getting his/her hands on the money.
Your building costs would be roughly the same as 2 in bays, the equipment would be a bit less or similar. But you will wash a minimum of 50 cars per hour with a mini with the line moving all the time.
2 in bays fully equipped = 300k
1 express mini w/ 2 pay stations = 250-290k
Above excludes reclaim, vacs, heating etc.
Your building costs would be roughly the same as 2 in bays, the equipment would be a bit less or similar. But you will wash a minimum of 50 cars per hour with a mini with the line moving all the time.
2 in bays fully equipped = 300k
1 express mini w/ 2 pay stations = 250-290k
Above excludes reclaim, vacs, heating etc.
I would like to thank everyone for all their help. Your input has been very helpful. This site will work well with a small tunnel, I am looking at 75ft, with a few vacs and a small area for express detail. I wish it was bigger, but the area is great and this type of service should do real well. $150,000 avg HH income, 1 mile rad is one of the highest in the state, I'm sure my avg ticket price will be pretty high. I need to work with what I have here.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
You might want to consider traveling to the SECWA roadshow in Memphis coming up in a couple of weeks. It will give you good opportunities to see some working express tunnels and bounce this idea off some experienced operators.
http://secwa.org/events/roadshow01.html
http://secwa.org/events/roadshow01.html
Thanks for the input, I would rather not disclose the location at this time. I have done quite a bit of homework on this one and really just wanted to get some feed back. I am confident a higher end EE / flex will work well here. The IBA was an easy fit for the property, just not for me.
captain cw
Member
Sorry for delay in getting back with you. I easily run about 20 cars per hour with my rollover express model. I have a Ryko Softgloss friction unit. The wash process runs about 2 minutes. The rest of the time is spent driving through arches, tire shiner and dryer. Good luck with whatever you decide. I would also beware of pro-formas. They are a sales tool. Cut the projections in half and make sure you can still pay the bills.
robert roman
Bob Roman
On the front cover of every carwash pro forma prepared by equipment manufacturers and their authorized representatives, is a statement that the customer should not expect to achieve any of the information produced with the financial projections the “company” has assisted the customer with.
Clearly, this statement of risk encourages the customer to develop their own evidence of commercial viability.
For example, banks don’t accept the estimated start-up expenses shown in pro forma prepared by carwash OEM’s. Instead, banks require the investor to obtain an appraisal from an independent third party.
Would it be wise to just cut OEM projections in half? In most cases, owners would normally choose to exercise the option to lease/sell at some level well above 50% of projections.
As for choosing a business model and type of equipment and process, owners often base their decisions on personal preference. In some cases, owners will combine personal preference with needs analysis to support their decisions. Experience has shown the more successful owners tend to follow the latter approach.
As for attendants, I have a friend in the Midwest who operates a mini-tunnel (40’ long building) all day with no attendant. He has done 30 plus car hours. I have another friend in the northeast that operates a high volume express with basically just himself and one other guy.
So, why does it take some owners 4 or more employees and a manager to operate a high volume express wash?
Clearly, this statement of risk encourages the customer to develop their own evidence of commercial viability.
For example, banks don’t accept the estimated start-up expenses shown in pro forma prepared by carwash OEM’s. Instead, banks require the investor to obtain an appraisal from an independent third party.
Would it be wise to just cut OEM projections in half? In most cases, owners would normally choose to exercise the option to lease/sell at some level well above 50% of projections.
As for choosing a business model and type of equipment and process, owners often base their decisions on personal preference. In some cases, owners will combine personal preference with needs analysis to support their decisions. Experience has shown the more successful owners tend to follow the latter approach.
As for attendants, I have a friend in the Midwest who operates a mini-tunnel (40’ long building) all day with no attendant. He has done 30 plus car hours. I have another friend in the northeast that operates a high volume express with basically just himself and one other guy.
So, why does it take some owners 4 or more employees and a manager to operate a high volume express wash?
Earl Weiss
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Perhaps a rhetorial question, but....
Why? Because there are many (successful) formulas for washes that use the term "Express" Some charge top buck prep hard to reach / clean areas and / or offer towel dry. Others charge less and due neither.
Some may be open around 60 hours a week and others may be open close to 100 hours a week.
I also think in some case you need to distinguish between "No Attendant" and no one on site. I know of conveyor locations I would say are "No Attendant" but they are part of an operation that has employees on site who may be able to offer assistance when needed. Then again one such place had a customer stuck inside for hours because no one knew what to do.
[So, why does it take some owners 4 or more employees and a manager to operate a high volume express wash?]
There is a busy express wash near my home that often has 4 and even 5 employees on during busy times. He is really tight on space at this site and has a wicked, tight 180 degree right turn to get to the three pay stations. On busy days he needs to have someone direct traffic in that area for things to go smoothly. The exit is located right next to the entrance which also adds to the congestion in this area. He will have two people at the entrance. One to guide on and one to check for antennas and taping back wiper. He has one to be on hand to direct traffic and assist in his free vac area which is also tight and sometimes another one to maintain the area checking on trash containers and picking up debris from the lot and also patrolling the vac area which has 30 drops. I believe this person also checks on chemicals and equipment from time to time.
This guy is probably an exception but I think it would be very risky to operate any form of conveyor wash without someone on site. I can't imagine an express site operating without 3 or possibly 4 employees during busy times.
There is a busy express wash near my home that often has 4 and even 5 employees on during busy times. He is really tight on space at this site and has a wicked, tight 180 degree right turn to get to the three pay stations. On busy days he needs to have someone direct traffic in that area for things to go smoothly. The exit is located right next to the entrance which also adds to the congestion in this area. He will have two people at the entrance. One to guide on and one to check for antennas and taping back wiper. He has one to be on hand to direct traffic and assist in his free vac area which is also tight and sometimes another one to maintain the area checking on trash containers and picking up debris from the lot and also patrolling the vac area which has 30 drops. I believe this person also checks on chemicals and equipment from time to time.
This guy is probably an exception but I think it would be very risky to operate any form of conveyor wash without someone on site. I can't imagine an express site operating without 3 or possibly 4 employees during busy times.
