In one helluva jam. Need help & advice

[soonermajic]

You guys know my story about my new(well used, but looked new) GinSan 3-bay Self Serve system we installed. I have the 3 bay pumpstand & water softeners working good. However, my Water Lover's R/O Unit is causing me fits...& COSTING ME $2800 SO FAR (NEW cold water rinse, blue filter & housing, new membrane, new low pressure valve & 2 different 4 hr tech helps from my distributor @ $90/hour)! I am literally about to go broke. I can't afford anymore & GinSan told my Tech that I may need to rebuild the dang RO! We can't get power to run through it & make it work. Tech says transformer seems ok, so does the contactors....

anyone out there have some advice...? I'm so frustrated I'm about ready to sell this wash!

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well, took over a SS 11 years ago. Spot free was not working. Got quotes of many thousands to get it working. Never fixed it. Don't seem to miss it. Maybe one day.

 

[vinh]

Do you have spot free water in the big cylinder container? Will Spot free water get pump out to the bays? what is the problem??

 

[ibspuds]

I'm happy with my 7500 model:

http://www.waterguy.com/spotfreerinse.html

 

[MEP001]

Does the delivery system work? Contract with Culligan for a DI system and run it for a year or two instead of RO until you can fix or replace it.

 

[soonermajic]

The R O Unit will not run, therefore no SFR. There is no RO water being produced, by the system, so none in big holding tank, nor is there any going out there.
MEP, what's the DI System you're talking about? Our town has terrible water, & SFR is a must!

 

[Stuart]

Sounds like it being an electrical issue, I would go with your electrician. He will be able to trace down any areas of electrical problems. There are many things that can go wrong. There is high and low voltage, contacts w/overloads, green circuit boards & relays, etc. Oh the green boards. There can be one "diode" that goes bad and the system can go down. I love the days of simple wire and relays.

Many RO units are actually 2 pieces of equipment into one. 1.RO unit which makes the SFR water and 2. the spot free delivery system.
With most of these units they both use the same power supply. But the power separates once inside the panel.
You need someone who can track this down.

While you have the electrician there have him show you how to use a volt meter. It is one of the greatest troubleshooting tools you will use and save you $90 per hour many times over.
Here is where you can find the manual for the RO unit but it does not give a whole lot of info for your problem.
http://ginsan.com/Technical.html
Oh, Check the floats for the tank, they could be wired wrong. hope this helps

 

[MEP001]

A DI system has two tanks with anion and cation exchange resins and it brings the softness down so low that it's just about as good as RO spot-free.

 

[Jeff_L]

I use the culling an rental system mel mentioned at one of my washes. It was there when I bought the wash, never changed it out. It is just the make for your SF, not the delivery system. If the latter is working, then use their tanks to feed your system for now. It's actuall 3 tanks, there is also a carbon tank too. As mel said, it's good enough for spot free until you get your other system running.

 

[robert roman]

“In one helluva jam. Need help & advice. I'm so frustrated I'm about ready to sell this wash!”

“2 different 4 hr tech helps from my distributor @ $90/hour! I am literally about to go broke. I can't afford anymore”

Aren’t you are the guy that bought a wash for $30,000 or so?

If $2,800 or more to fix RO is going to bust your balls, then Jeff_L probably gave you the best advice.

Rent something until you can afford to repair/replace.

Otherwise, as you are finding out, this bargain will continue to be a money pit rather than a cash flow positive store.

 

[mac]

Boy this discussion is target rich as they say. Couple of things. First, I NEVER use Culligan. Here in FL they will screw you big time. Second, the Gin San Water lovers is sooo overbuilt, it's crazy. I have gone into many locations and remover several 5 gallon buckets of parts from them. And they work just fine. It's way too complicated. Third, here's at least a temporary fix. Have you ever seen one of those RO units sold for homes, that goes under the kitchen sink? If not go to any big box store and look at it. You will find there are no pumps, no printed circuit boards, no valves, no back flushing, just a water supply from the city and a small pressure tank. You can easily modify your current system by opening the water supply solenoid valve. You can remove the valve's diaphragm to do this. Then just turn the water supply on, and city water pressure will push the water through the membrane and make RO water. it won't do it as fast, but it will do it. Let it run all night and it should supply most of your RO if not all. You will just have to manually turn the water on and off. It's not surprising that the techs couldn't fix it. Remember that to be a car wash repair man, all you have to do is show up with some tools and a van. There isn't much in the way of certified training. Welcome to our industry sooner. If you are in FL I can come and fix it for you.

 

[soonermajic]

I'm not the guy who bought for $30,000. I am a coach, who moved out of the DFW Metroplex, to take care of his ailing in-laws. Wife 7 I took HUGE paycuts, so we bought a carwash for extra income.
Wash is doing avg at best. Bills of around $2500/mo, & gross of around $3k/mo. However, that gross is steadily going down, due to no SFR. We have, however, saved every penny we've made, but that cash reserve is almost dried up. SO yes, Robert, we are somewhat desperate.

You other guys on here, I really appreciate your advice . Would my SFR delivery system have to work, to use the DI system? Cause my delivery system is not working either...

 

[2Biz]

+1 on what MAC says! I have a Dultmeier 600gpd SFR system. The only board in the entire system is on the Backflush for the chlorine filter....Everything else is relay and timer driven....Very simple and easy to troubleshoot...

Couple of questions/suggestions...How do you know the transfer pump isn't working if there isn't any water in the tank? There should be a float switch in the tank that won't allow the transfer pump to kick on if there isn't any water in the tank. Secondly do what mac says on bypassing the inlet water supply solenoid. About every 6 months, my solenoid sticks open and the tank will overflow over night. No biggy...It still makes great RO water! You'll just have to micro-manage till you get the rest sorted. Lastly...How many bays do you have? Sounds like you have a lot of bills compared to income....I have a 4 bay and my bills are no where close to that including mortgage?

 

[robert roman]

Well then, sorry about your dilemma.

If you are "convinced" that having no spot free water is the constraint that is preventing you from achieving goals and objectives (extra income versus declining income), then all "available" resources should be applied against the constraint to break it.

So far, this means rent (one solution) or adapt residential device as bandage because you do not have the skill sets needed to DIY a RO system. At least, not yet. Moreover, you learned that hiring a mechanic is no guarantee the system will work before they leave.

Mac has a good idea if you can make it work. Rent's more expensive but maybe less headaches.

Hope this helps.

 

[MEP001]

Yes, you need the delivery system to work, but that's nothing more than a pump, solenoids and a controller. You don't need a holding tank with a DI system.

Culligan is not a big rip-off company, but they do charge way too much for softeners and service. The DI system is pretty cheap though.

Another option would be to strip the RO system, because all you really need is a pump and motor, a solenoid, a heavy duty float switch, a membrane and a couple ball valves.

 

[soonermajic]

I'm paying off my new LW 4000 & GinSan 3-bay Ultimate (w/ twin softeners & RO system), & the uninstall/install, in 3 years. The equipment is all used, but new to me. That's why the high bills. Guy I bought it from, C"alimed" to make $47k/yr, for previous 7 years. My IBA does about $2k/mo, & his did about $1k.....so not sure how he arrived at that high amount,,,but lesson learned on my part.

I greatly appreciate you guys help. I don't know if I'm more frustrated...or depressed!

 

[Washmee]

A spot free (Reverse osmosis) generating system needs nothing more than a booster pump, A contactor to turn on the pump controlled by a float switch in the product tank, membranes (the long stainless or plastic cylinders) a pressure regulator w/gauge and some hoses and fittings. Anything else is all bells and whistles.

 

[wash4me]

I would never use that distributor again and tell us who it is so no one else here will either. An electrician that does motor controls or a decent carwash repair man could fix this in short order with off the shelf components. It's not complicated.

 

[pgrzes]

Why not just put a hose into your spot free storage tank to see if your delivery system is working? You should only need enough water in there to turn off the low water float. If nothing in the production side will work, isnt that all starting with a pressure switch that tells the system you have sufficient water pressure?? Make sure thats working and go down the line. I have a ginsan setup and its not all that difficult.

 

[Greg Pack]

Soonermajic, give me a shout at twozerofive-threesixnine-sevensixtwoseven. I will try to help a bit