Yesterday we went to a auction about a hundred miles from home. We stopped on the way to eat breakfast. We rarely carry cash anymore and never carry coins. So when we are done I pull the out my debit card to pay so we can head out. Well, they don't take cards. They do however have a ATM right there by the cashier counter. So I run my card and get a $20 to pay for our meal and leave a tip. The ATM charges me $3 and my bank will probably charge me a couple bucks too which just added to the cost of our meal. I don't think we will be back that way anytime soon but if we were I would probably not stop there again. I'm not against cash, I LOVE it. But geez get a card reader!! If they only had a Cryptopay at the table....LOL
Inconvenience At Breakfast
- Thread starter cdreed06
- Start date
Jim L.
Florida panhandle
At least the restaurant offered you a choice. You could either go hungry or pay the high fees associated with using credit cards.
I’m sure the owner weighed his options and chooses to do business his way for a reason.
I’m sure the owner weighed his options and chooses to do business his way for a reason.
JMMUSTANG
car wash owner
Were they busy?
If they were busy maybe there's a lesson we could learn.
We pay Credit Card fees vs. ATM fees being paid to us.
I bet the restaurant owner owned the ATM too.
If they were busy maybe there's a lesson we could learn.
We pay Credit Card fees vs. ATM fees being paid to us.
I bet the restaurant owner owned the ATM too.
PaulLovesJamie
rural 5 bay SS
I pay for most everything with a credit card too, but I've commented before that in my area there's been a shift back toward cash. "Cash only" signs are not popping up all over, but they are not uncommon enough to warrant comment. There are also quite a few businesses that accept credit, but make it clear they prefer cash.
Perhaps us rural folk are slow and unsophisticated... or perhaps we know something...
or maybe we just have a different perspective.
Posted at the door of my favorite diner, I eat there about once a week:
Perhaps us rural folk are slow and unsophisticated... or perhaps we know something...
or maybe we just have a different perspective. Posted at the door of my favorite diner, I eat there about once a week:
We live in a rural area too, the place I was referring to was rural as well. I just think that the merchant fees are just really another cost of doing business, like paying the light bill. Maybe I'm wrong but however someone wants to pay me is fine with me. And yes the restaurant owner probably owned the ATM. Just something to think about from a customer side. I won't pay additional ATM fees again if I don't happen to have cash, I'll go somewhere where the owner knows the customer wants convenience.
robert roman
Bob Roman
Whether it’s Forbes, Entrepreneur, Wall Street, etc., the consensus among analysts seems to say the worst mistake a small business owner can make today is to become a cash-only business.
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
More wholesome food for thought
My position & observations have always been basically what Paul, Jim, & JM, wrote. My problem is when the credit card providers are among the same entities making cash proportionately more expensive than what it had been traditionally before during a more prosperous & less inflated time in the USA. When the credit card providers are given too much authority & influence ... then another market lever for keeping credit card fees down ... tends to be less available. In my opinion, the better quality & less biased long term studies of the GAO & what the CAGW & specific experience sharing of other (higher per capita income) countries (including starting earlier with the chip-pin) have presented ... have more credibility.
As far as the ATM setup that we have ... no more than $2 is charged for debit card use to a customer ... & that is the amount received by us for each debit transaction. Non ATM debit card use which it sounds like CD may have used may have had a bearing on extra fees depending on his credit card provider. Let's change the scenario where like many of our customers use a bank or credit union that automatically reverses all ATM fees ... if CD chose to use one of them ... then CD probably would not feel so offended &/or inconvenienced. There are a large percentage of automatic car wash owners (& who appeal more to those specific customers) on this forum in areas where all the automatics accept credit cards & they just charge the customer the overall extra costs for the extra convenience to make up the difference.
Like I said before ... for those of us who keep their property taxes down by not having such an over capacity of specifically self service bays ... business is more weather driven than the convenience gains from credit card &/or the possible future Apple Pay like format. We should also be considerate of those of us who have laundromats with our car washes or have laundromats only ... which would require a much greater investment to cater to the "credit card only - no cash period" crowd. We should not think just of ourselves & our specific operations.
All the credit card people should be thanking & applauding PaulLovesJamies's position for helping make sure the rest of us always keep our cash option reasonably strong & credit cards fees potentially lower. In my extremely humble opinion ... of course.
Like Elizabeth Warren & others have stated ... it is not the Energy lobby that is most dominate in Washington DC ... it is the Banking Industry lobby. The banking industry is tied very heavily in with the Federal Reserve ... & now we know why Congress People of both parties, genders & all 50 states across the country ... should roll up their sleeves in the better way for the greater good ... based on what their authority is ... as what our founding fathers stated in the USA Constitution.
mike walsh http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html
My position & observations have always been basically what Paul, Jim, & JM, wrote. My problem is when the credit card providers are among the same entities making cash proportionately more expensive than what it had been traditionally before during a more prosperous & less inflated time in the USA. When the credit card providers are given too much authority & influence ... then another market lever for keeping credit card fees down ... tends to be less available. In my opinion, the better quality & less biased long term studies of the GAO & what the CAGW & specific experience sharing of other (higher per capita income) countries (including starting earlier with the chip-pin) have presented ... have more credibility.
As far as the ATM setup that we have ... no more than $2 is charged for debit card use to a customer ... & that is the amount received by us for each debit transaction. Non ATM debit card use which it sounds like CD may have used may have had a bearing on extra fees depending on his credit card provider. Let's change the scenario where like many of our customers use a bank or credit union that automatically reverses all ATM fees ... if CD chose to use one of them ... then CD probably would not feel so offended &/or inconvenienced. There are a large percentage of automatic car wash owners (& who appeal more to those specific customers) on this forum in areas where all the automatics accept credit cards & they just charge the customer the overall extra costs for the extra convenience to make up the difference.
Like I said before ... for those of us who keep their property taxes down by not having such an over capacity of specifically self service bays ... business is more weather driven than the convenience gains from credit card &/or the possible future Apple Pay like format. We should also be considerate of those of us who have laundromats with our car washes or have laundromats only ... which would require a much greater investment to cater to the "credit card only - no cash period" crowd. We should not think just of ourselves & our specific operations
.All the credit card people should be thanking & applauding PaulLovesJamies's position for helping make sure the rest of us always keep our cash option reasonably strong & credit cards fees potentially lower. In my extremely humble
opinion ... of course.Like Elizabeth Warren & others have stated ... it is not the Energy lobby that is most dominate in Washington DC ... it is the Banking Industry lobby. The banking industry is tied very heavily in with the Federal Reserve ... & now we know why Congress People of both parties, genders & all 50 states across the country ... should roll up their sleeves in the better way for the greater good ... based on what their authority is ... as what our founding fathers stated in the USA Constitution.
mike walsh http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html
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I can see where the restaurant is coming from, why should they have to pay the credit card fees when there’s an ATM machine for the customers to use that want to use their Debit/Credit card. I’m sure the restaurant gets a cut of the ATM fees, is that the smart way to do business, I don’t think so but then I’m not there. I think you’re going to see fewer small businesses taking credit card after 1 Oct 2015 when the small businesses find themselves suddenly liable for card-related fraud. It won’t take long after that you’ll start seeing more and more Chip/Pin credit cards and fewer mag-stripe cards. I’ve been trying to find out how the Chip/Pin cards are going to affect the car wash industry without much success. Will every ACW and coin box that accepts credit cards now require to have a Keypad installed along with a new card reader? What will it cost to upgrade the system I have now or will I have to scrap it and start over? Will there be a small transaction limit of say $30 that won’t require a pin number? These are questions that should be asked of the car wash equipment manufactures before the new Chip/Pin cards come out.
robert roman
Bob Roman
“….credit card providers….making cash proportionately more expensive than what it had been traditionally….credit card providers are given too much authority & influence ... then another market lever for keeping credit card fees down...”
Lever for any fee is supply and demand.
People are literally salivating at the prospect of being able to use their smart phones to pay.
What a hook for a merchant.
Reason being once people get a smart phone most of them become addicted to it.
I’ve seen people using food stamps that own a better smart phone than I have.
Smart phones, watches, tablets or whatever is the future, not dollar coins.
Lever for any fee is supply and demand.
People are literally salivating at the prospect of being able to use their smart phones to pay.
What a hook for a merchant.
Reason being once people get a smart phone most of them become addicted to it.
I’ve seen people using food stamps that own a better smart phone than I have.
Smart phones, watches, tablets or whatever is the future, not dollar coins.
Earl Weiss
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You lost me. How is cash being made "proportionaly more expensive."
PaulLovesJamie
rural 5 bay SS
Thanks but you give me way too much credit Mike; I'm simply commenting that smaller/rural markets have different cultural, demographic and economic profiles, what works in the city isnt necessarily the best solution everywhere.
I totally agree. Unless it causes me to lose $, then I consider it to be a poor business decision.
PaulLovesJamie
rural 5 bay SS
The reaction I'm hearing around here among small business owners is basically "wait, I have to pay the fees AND I'm going to be liable for the fraud too??" I suspect that a few more business will stop accepting cards, but in general I think the shift around here will more likely be to have different cash & credit prices, as many business already do & we've discussed here before. Thats what I had been thinking I would do, its effectively the same as the ATMs charging you a couple bucks, different cash/credit prices etc.
I was chatting with Jim G at Etowah Valley's booth at the NRCC show in Atlantic City last month, he recommeded that I charge a convenience fee of 50 cents for using a CC. Corroborates my way of thinking, and iteresting to hear an equip mfgr saying it. I cant seem to shake the thought, I might implement it sooner rather than wait.
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
Preponderance of Evidence
mike walsh www.kingkoin.com
Two former US Mint Directors have testified I believe under oath about the obstacles making cash more expensive. The Citizens Against Government Waste has pointed out the most efficient ways to have cash available to people which is a proper function of government of most countries. If the choice is a less efficient way such as keeping the one dollar paper bills vs the more durable dollar coin then that is where the more expense for cash in general will hamper its future use. If you don't look at the overwhelming evidence based on other industrialized countries' experience then a bunch of you ... who like to take the CAGW ... out of context ... are in my & others opinion wrong. There is other simple arithmetic involved also. There is a car wash operator in Maryland ... David DuGoff ... who is also an attorney & has more than proven himself in the Mid-Atlantic Car Wash Assn ... I believe can articulate some of these concepts (that some have trouble holding) better than myself.
mike walsh www.kingkoin.com
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Earl Weiss
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>>mjwalsh .... My problem is when the credit card providers are among the same entities making cash proportionately more expensive than what it had been traditionally before during a more prosperous & less inflated time in the USA. When the credit card providers are given too much authority & influence ....<<
>>>Originally Posted by Earl Weiss
You lost me. How is cash being made "proportionaly more expensive."<<
>>mjwalsh....Two former US Mint Directors have testified I believe under oath about the obstacles making cash more expensive. ...........................There is other simple arithmetic involved also. There is a car wash operator in Maryland ... David DuGoff ... who is also an attorney & has more than proven himself in the Mid-Atlantic Car Wash Assn ... I believe can articulate some of these concepts (that some have trouble holding) better than myself.
Well, either I am too dense to see where you answered the question, or we need someone else to articulate it better.
>>>Originally Posted by Earl Weiss
You lost me. How is cash being made "proportionaly more expensive."<<
>>mjwalsh....Two former US Mint Directors have testified I believe under oath about the obstacles making cash more expensive. ...........................There is other simple arithmetic involved also. There is a car wash operator in Maryland ... David DuGoff ... who is also an attorney & has more than proven himself in the Mid-Atlantic Car Wash Assn ... I believe can articulate some of these concepts (that some have trouble holding) better than myself.
Well, either I am too dense to see where you answered the question, or we need someone else to articulate it better.
Waxman
Super Moderator
what surprises me most is not a restaurant making a cash only rule, but, rather, a carwash owner/operator not carrying any cash. huh?
Between using my credit or debit card even though like MEP I carry about 50$ with me I seldom use it. In fact I don't even write many checks any more using the bill paying program my bank has. There are one or two small restaurants around here that are cash only. Several that used to be that way now accept credit or debit cards.
Dcalhoun
Member
I agree with the comment that little information has been put out about the impact of VISA & MC decision to require chip card technology by 10/15. I emailed Unitec last week to find out what they were doing concerning that and if they had plans to address Near Field Communication (NFC) that Apple has now introduced and no one has responded. Are our industry suppliers ready for this change? The lack of discussion and information is disconcerting - especially for those of us who are not technology guru's.
I agree there is not much information on the new chip cards. I don't read the financial magazines, its just not my cup of tea. Seems to me that there would be someone within our supplier chain that would be up on this change and be getting things ready for the industry. Maybe there is.
