I want to add a premium wash at one of my locations and was thinking of doing 3 passes of alkaline instead of the 2 passes which are on the other thee packages. Will that much alkaline make dirt bond back to the car? I have to differentiate the package some how, and that is one way to make the customer see they are getting more. Thoughts?
Is 3 passes of PS too much.
- Thread starter APW
- Start date
robert roman
Bob Roman
My opinion is three passes of soap is waste of time and money.
In S.E., one pass of very strong, very wet solution of alkaline should be sufficient. Boom and bang it’s off.
Of course, when you go strong, you have to ensure thorough rinse and that each wash selection comes with either high quality drying aid or rain repellant or wax.
People visit to clean, shine, and protect. Clean price is least, shine is more, and protection more so. Offer extended protection, charge even more. This is one way to differentiate. Also, value-added products have much higher margin than soap.
This strategy also eliminates one pass and increases hourly capacity.
In S.E., one pass of very strong, very wet solution of alkaline should be sufficient. Boom and bang it’s off.
Of course, when you go strong, you have to ensure thorough rinse and that each wash selection comes with either high quality drying aid or rain repellant or wax.
People visit to clean, shine, and protect. Clean price is least, shine is more, and protection more so. Offer extended protection, charge even more. This is one way to differentiate. Also, value-added products have much higher margin than soap.
This strategy also eliminates one pass and increases hourly capacity.
tdlconceptsllc
Well-known member
Just curious what kind of IBA is this friction or touchfree is my first question?. If it's touchfree 1 pass of soap is gonna be very tough, hardly any dwell time to let the chemical work. As where you can put HI/Lo combo or LO/HI/HI and dwell time which touchfree needs. I think you could get away with 1 pass like Robert said on friction. Maybe I am missing something
getnbusy
Active member
I run 3 passes on my top wash on a laserwash 4000. I can tell you that it cleans the heck out of the car. I don't think the extra soap does a lot. I think its the dwell time that makes it work. I'm a dummy because I really need to know more about what its costing me.
The shine and protect part is easy. The magic is in the clean. I like the 3rd pass because there was no equipment to buy. Not sayin other improvements produce more or less ROI. I'm sayin a clean car goes a long way for repeat customers
The shine and protect part is easy. The magic is in the clean. I like the 3rd pass because there was no equipment to buy. Not sayin other improvements produce more or less ROI. I'm sayin a clean car goes a long way for repeat customers
Do you run three high passes or a low/high combo?
robert roman
Bob Roman
Key to maximizing any in-bay is to design washes so the service rates are essentially the same. This is contrary to convention where more is better (more product/cycles so it takes longer).
Given the quality of chemical available, there is no good reason why in-bay should take 6, 7 or 8 minutes.
Remember when folks said low-priced, 3-minute express wash with free vacuums wouldn’t catch on or was bad for industry? Many former in-bay, self-serve, and full-service customers have voted with their feet.
This shows it’s possible to break constraints like consumer perception if the product is good.
Likewise, you can break consumer perception that 7-minute wash is necessarily better than 4-minute wash because it takes longer.
If you can get your head around this, most in-bay operators will find they can make more money with what they currently have.
Once more money is made, it’s a lot easier to step up to retrofit or upgrade.
Given the quality of chemical available, there is no good reason why in-bay should take 6, 7 or 8 minutes.
Remember when folks said low-priced, 3-minute express wash with free vacuums wouldn’t catch on or was bad for industry? Many former in-bay, self-serve, and full-service customers have voted with their feet.
This shows it’s possible to break constraints like consumer perception if the product is good.
Likewise, you can break consumer perception that 7-minute wash is necessarily better than 4-minute wash because it takes longer.
If you can get your head around this, most in-bay operators will find they can make more money with what they currently have.
Once more money is made, it’s a lot easier to step up to retrofit or upgrade.
getnbusy
Active member
I run 1 pass lo and 2 passes hi. Like I say I don't know how smart this is from a cost standpoint, or how smart it is with the laws of chemistry. Ive failed in both areas. I can tell you that the third pass is on speed 9 so it really doesn't add that much time to the wash cycle. Also no one else in my immediate area runs 3 passes and yes the customers notice. The car is clean
getnbusy
Active member
Robert I think I am understanding that your strategy is to give the same clean on all packages and upsell the wash packages with shine and protect. And that that is more profitable b/c we can charge more for the premium service than we can for an extra pass of soap.
I agree.
In my case I call my top package "Xtreme Clean and Shine". Therefore I go to the extreme (I think) to get more than enough (not just barely enough) chemical on the car to do the job. I didn't mention that I also do a low pressure and a hi pressure pass of carnauba wax. I do need to study the math and science but the message I am trying to send to the customer is that we're gon pile it on deep for the top wash. Right now top package is runnin about 40 some % of wash sales so I hope I'm makin money.
Great discussion I am making the cc test a priority so I will know for sure. I hope I don't get blown away with the cost because I am totally satisfied with the way the cars look when they leave.
APW what soap are you using ?
I agree.
In my case I call my top package "Xtreme Clean and Shine". Therefore I go to the extreme (I think) to get more than enough (not just barely enough) chemical on the car to do the job. I didn't mention that I also do a low pressure and a hi pressure pass of carnauba wax. I do need to study the math and science but the message I am trying to send to the customer is that we're gon pile it on deep for the top wash. Right now top package is runnin about 40 some % of wash sales so I hope I'm makin money.
Great discussion I am making the cc test a priority so I will know for sure. I hope I don't get blown away with the cost because I am totally satisfied with the way the cars look when they leave.
APW what soap are you using ?
soonermajic
Well-known member
this is very intriguing. I may think about doing this. Would you guys think 3 passes of hi ph is too much?
I am using a private label 2 pass alkaline at this site.
GoBuckeyes
Self-Serve and Automatics
I have a few questions for those thinking of adding an ‘extreme’ top wash package.
First, what is the price of your current top wash and what is the price you’re thinking of charging for the ‘extreme’ package?
Second, what are the proposed additions that will differentiate the ‘extreme’ package from the current top wash?
Like Robert mentioned, I used to suffer from the perception that to increase the price I had to add passes and build on top of the previous package. Doing so cuts down on your throughput and can actually make you less profitable. If you don’t know what your wash packages cost you there is no way to know if you’re making more money just because people are paying more.
Here’s a quick scenario....
Let’s say your current top wash takes 5 minutes and you get $12. You add a new package that has a 3rd pass of presoak, adding 30 seconds, but now charge $13. You went from making $2.44/minute to $2.36/min and that doesn’t even take into account the added expense.
Sometimes you can’t help having to add a pass or two to a new package. But, when you do, you need to make it count. For example, adding a ‘Hot Wax’ pass might add 30 seconds and cost you $.50 but you can get an extra $5 for that pass. That is now the only kind of pass I will add. Otherwise it’s substitution of a ‘better’ product for a ‘regular’ product that differentiates packages because it doesn’t add any time to the washes.
First, what is the price of your current top wash and what is the price you’re thinking of charging for the ‘extreme’ package?
Second, what are the proposed additions that will differentiate the ‘extreme’ package from the current top wash?
Like Robert mentioned, I used to suffer from the perception that to increase the price I had to add passes and build on top of the previous package. Doing so cuts down on your throughput and can actually make you less profitable. If you don’t know what your wash packages cost you there is no way to know if you’re making more money just because people are paying more.
Here’s a quick scenario....
Let’s say your current top wash takes 5 minutes and you get $12. You add a new package that has a 3rd pass of presoak, adding 30 seconds, but now charge $13. You went from making $2.44/minute to $2.36/min and that doesn’t even take into account the added expense.
Sometimes you can’t help having to add a pass or two to a new package. But, when you do, you need to make it count. For example, adding a ‘Hot Wax’ pass might add 30 seconds and cost you $.50 but you can get an extra $5 for that pass. That is now the only kind of pass I will add. Otherwise it’s substitution of a ‘better’ product for a ‘regular’ product that differentiates packages because it doesn’t add any time to the washes.
soonermajic
Well-known member
this is why Robert believes so heavily in the stand alone dryer theory...lol
My top wash at this site takes 8 minutes 15 seconds. If i add another low pressure pass and another hp pass it will be close to ten minutes. Thats a long wash but I will jump from the current $10 to $15 for the top wash.
Just my 2 cents - during my busy season I have a stack line from sun up to sundown so several years ago I did the math. At the time my basic wash was $5 and ultimate $10. I took the time to run the numbers (wash-time) load time etc... I was making more money per minute of off the $5 wash.
I tweaked the timing and passes to eek out increase in revenue/minute with the ultimate while maintaining wash quality. A lot of fluff in my old wash packages. This only works at a high volume sight as far as I can see. I also set up 2 separate wash recipes for each wash cycle one for busy season and one for slow. Busy season is basically just faster version of my slow season
I tweaked the timing and passes to eek out increase in revenue/minute with the ultimate while maintaining wash quality. A lot of fluff in my old wash packages. This only works at a high volume sight as far as I can see. I also set up 2 separate wash recipes for each wash cycle one for busy season and one for slow. Busy season is basically just faster version of my slow season
pgrzes
Active member
I would think if you eliminate the third pass (approx. 45seconds) and add a 10 sec dwell delay on each presoak pass you would get as good or better wash and increase throughput. You could slow the presoak pass or strengthen the presoak on each as needed. I just dont see the 3rd pass itself being the advantage. Also I would slow the 1st hp pass down as much as possible. I have 2 locations same chemicals, same machines, but due to water quality and customer expectations(2 totally different demographics) my wash packages, passes, speeds and prices are not the same. Only my opinions, so there worth what was paid for them!!!
Waxman
Super Moderator
i like the idea of 3 passes of hi ph. more cleaning power is better. if i could do it i would. it would make a great hi-end wash package.
