Is a regulator needed for Cat 310 Pumps?

[slash007]

I have a regulator that runs to the pump solenoids and also to my weep. I am having trouble getting my weep to put out more than 12-13 oz per minute even with the regulator turned up and was wondering it would be ok if I just removed it? Attached are some pics of my setup. View attachment 571 View attachment 572

 

[MEP001]

The regulator may be there for the solenoids to work properly. Check the MOPD rating on the solenoids - if it's 150 or higher you can remove the regulator. If it's only 50, the pressure to the rinse solenoids can't exceed that or they can't open.

 

[slash007]

The regulator may be there for the solenoids to work properly. Check the MOPD rating on the solenoids - if it's 150 or higher you can remove the regulator. If it's only 50, the pressure to the rinse solenoids can't exceed that or they can't open.

Here are pics of the solenoids. The first pic is of the 5 for the pumps, the other is for the weep. View attachment 573 View attachment 574

 

[MEP001]

This makes me wonder why that regulator is there now. The Cat pumps can handle 100 PSI city pressure, and if it was higher than that you'd be having issues with your Hydrominders. Just in case, you might look into the check valves on the hot water side from the tank. They might have put a regulator on because they were having trouble with the pressure from the rinse making them stick closed. If that's not the case, there's no reason you couldn't remove the regulator.

 

[slash007]

I think our city pressure is around 50, so that can't be the issue. Are you talking about the check valves behind the hydro-minders on the super saver tank? I also have check valves on each pump where the weep line goes in before it hits the pump. Is there any way those could restrict flow to the weep, or be a reason there is a regulator? I never saw the need for the regulator either, but wondered if it was just something they setup as part of their standard setup for the JC Super Saver or if it was really needed.

 

[2Biz]

Should the weep tee in before the pump? Mine tee's in after the regulator/unloader and before the HP hose goes out to the bay. There is a HP Cv that keeps HP from backfeeding into the poly line back to the weep manifold.

I'm wondering if your restriction is because the weep has to go throught the pump? Can you get us a picture of how the weep feeds into the pump? If I understand you correctly.

 

[slash007]

View attachment 575 View attachment 576
Here are some pics. The polytube going into the check valve is at the bottom.

 

[2Biz]

So the weep water has to go thru the pump and HP regulator before it goes to the bays? Comparing yours to the way my weep is plumbed, if you move the weep tee and Check Valve after the HP regulator, it would be the same as mine. Then you would be bypassing the pump and HP regulator and injecting weep right into the HP line. I'm wondering if that would help give you more volume or would it create another issue I'm unaware of?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

If I'm interpreting the picture correctly, the weep water is really not going through anything of significance. It appears to travel across/through the pump head, but downstream of the valves, so no restriction to speak of there. After that, it goes by the regulator, but not through it. Although I would have plumbed it on the outlet side of the pump, I see no reason for it not to work the way it is.

 

[slash007]

If I'm interpreting the picture correctly, the weep water is really not going through anything of significance. It appears to travel across/through the pump head, but downstream of the valves, so no restriction to speak of there. After that, it goes by the regulator, but not through it. Although I would have plumbed it on the outlet side of the pump, I see no reason for it not to work the way it is.

That's the way I see it too. It goes through the pump head and right through the pump head and past the regulator to the line that goes to the bays. I'll probably just try bypassing the regulator and measuring the weep to see if it makes a difference. I really need to increase the flow. Last night it only got down to 20 and I had two bays frozen this morning. Luckily they thawed out today on their own, but before this deep freeze I never had a problem at this wash with freezing except when it went close to 0.

 

[Randy]

The Watts regulator pictured is only rated at 10 – 30 psi. this will cut down your flow considerably. If this is feeding your pumps for rinse and you’re using cold water for your wax cycle you’ll need the regulator to reduce the water pressure so the pump will draw the wax, that’s how ours are set up. Your weep water should be connected to the incoming water main just downstream of your backflow preventer and before the water softener full pressure and flow. I’m currently weeping about 18 oz. of water per minute on the High pressure guns and 24 oz. of water per minute on the Foam brush.

 

[slash007]

View attachment 577 Here is a picture of the regulator up close. Being a JC Super Saver setup, the wax is drawn from the mixing tanks the same as the pre-soak, tire cleaner and hp soap. What I need to decide is if I should remove the regulator, or maybe just tee off right before the regulator and run a line to the weep that doesn't go through the regulator. I could also try to t in somewhere else for the weep water if I have to.

 

[slash007]

Here is a copy of the spec sheet for the regulator. http://media.wattswater.com/ES-U5B.pdf I guess there is a screen in there that is removable. Is it possible that the screen is dirty and restricting water flow even more than the regulator itself is? I get perfect flow for the hp pumps, so I don't know if that would be a possible issue for the weep since it requires less water than the pumps.

 

[MEP001]

A good question is where the pump gets water on the wax cycle. If it draws from the gravity tank (hot water wax), or if there's no high-pressure wax at all, the regulator is unnecessary. If the rinse solenoids also energize on wax, your pumps won't draw chemical if you remove the regulator. I doubt that's the case because the weep could never flow enough with just 10 PSI through that regulator.

 

[Randy]

It is possible that the inlet screen is on the regulator is clogged up. We have the same type regulator at one of our washes and we clean it out about twice a year. I'd still find another source for my weep water.

 

[slash007]

A good question is where the pump gets water on the wax cycle. If it draws from the gravity tank (hot water wax), or if there's no high-pressure wax at all, the regulator is unnecessary. If the rinse solenoids also energize on wax, your pumps won't draw chemical if you remove the regulator. I doubt that's the case because the weep could never flow enough with just 10 PSI through that regulator.

I used to have both high and low pressure wax. I got rid of the low pressure wax and replaced it with air dry. I only have high pressure wax now and I'm guessing that the rinse solenoids have to be energizing in order for the wax to be high pressure. My pressure gauge says that it is running about 20 psi when the weep is on. I raised it to 30 but wasn't able to measure any significant increase in the oz. per minute.

I have never cleaned the inlet screen, so I should do that anyway. Randy, is it easy to access? This regulator is close to the floor, so it might be difficult to access if the inlet screen is on the bottom. Would it be ok to T off right before the regulator and run a line to the weep, or would that cause other issues?

It is supposed to get down to 9 tonight so I removed the guns from all of the bays just to make sure that I don't get any freezes from clogged tips tonight as tomorrow is supposed to warm up and I expect to be busy. It is only 18 right now and I just had a bay freeze up. It is the only bay that gives me constant issues. Last year I only had one freeze up the whole year and it was this bay. This year it is the third time it has frozen, all when around 20-25 degrees. It doesn't have a gun on it, so that can't be the issue. What else can I troubleshoot when trying to figure out why this bay has issues? Funny thing is that last week when we had the super deep freeze and it got to -6 with a -40 windshield, I removed the gun from this bay hoping it wouldn't freeze and left the other bays alone. The next morning the problem bay was fine while the others all froze.

 

[JGinther]

My guess is that your weep isn't coming on soon enough during a temperature drop... If you have a weepmizer, try adjusting the start temp up a few degrees and restoring all other settings to default. Also make sure the weep stat isn't getting false heat.

When you took the gun off the problem bay, all the flow of the system took the easiest path (the weep guns create backpressure by using a tiny orifice within the gun valve), so you ended up freezing the other bays. As far as the supersaver rack goes, you don't need the pressure regulator. Most coleman stuff works better after removing extra components. You should check the pressure on the gauge when 2-3 bays are using cold water rinse. If the pressure is dropping too low while people are washing, the weep won't flow...

One last thing to check is that the crack pressure of the weep check valves is low enough for the pressure regulated water to overcome easily... If you have one high crack check valve and others that are low, you will likely have that one be the one that freezes.

 

[MEP001]

I used to have both high and low pressure wax. I got rid of the low pressure wax and replaced it with air dry. I only have high pressure wax now and I'm guessing that the rinse solenoids have to be energizing in order for the wax to be high pressure.

Most commonly, wax is mixed with hot water just like the soap and doesn't use the rinse solenoids. The quickest way to confirm would be to turn a bay on wax and see if the rinse solenoid coil is energized.

 

[pgrzes]

I am just now installing a Coleman SS Pump stand. I was thinking of breaking that rinse/weep manifold, leaving the weep on the city water line and hooking the rinse sol. side to a reject/city storage tank. The soap and wax seem to me would be drawing from the water tank above and the rinse manifold is just for rinse, don't see as to why that needs to be pressurized?? Has anyone else done this with this setup? I would think the pressure bal. valve would be more necessary on the R.O. line then rinse?

 

[JGinther]

I am just now installing a Coleman SS Pump stand. I was thinking of breaking that rinse/weep manifold, leaving the weep on the city water line and hooking the rinse sol. side to a reject/city storage tank. The soap and wax seem to me would be drawing from the water tank above and the rinse manifold is just for rinse, don't see as to why that needs to be pressurized?? Has anyone else done this with this setup? I would think the pressure bal. valve would be more necessary on the R.O. line then rinse?

In theory your plan would work... But in reality, I think the solenoids have too small of an orifice for incoming water not to be pressurized. I think you would run into cavitation problems.