It’s that time of the year that we should start thinking about freeze protection systems. It was 37 deg. here this morning, clear and cold. I check my Dixmor Weepmizer for proper operation. I checked my Anti-Freeze blowdown system, making sure I had the Flo-jet pump, all the hoses and fittings that I need to close down the car wash in a hurry. I keep all these parts in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it. I also had to go to Walmart and get 6 gallons of -20 windshield washer fluid, it’s gone up a little bit from last year, but I'm good to go.
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It’s time to start thinking about Freeze Protection
- Thread starter Randy
- Start date
It was 37 this morning and the high today was 78. If I lived in a place that it doesn't normally get real cold like Texas I'd have a couple of cases of -20 windshield washer fluid shipped in just to be ready in case it freezes hard like it did a couple of years ago.
MEP001
Well-known member
I don't rely on weep anymore. I go through the washes, turn on air and squeeze all the triggers until all the water is gone, then shut everything down. If there's a threat of an extended hard freeze like during the Snowpocalypse I drain all the tanks and plumbing in the room.
Roz
Well-known member
Randy, have you ever tried mixing winter windshield fluid with regular foam brush chemical to make a winter blend? We usually use KR winter blend for the brush but wondered about mixing winter fluid to the brush and HP soap containers in the winter instead of diluting with water as instructed on the container...
I have never personally tried mixing windshield washer fluid with foam brush soap. I have talked to a number of operators over the years that have tried to mix windshield washer fluid with foam brush soap and they all said they couldn’t get it to work. If you can find an economical source for methanol you want to mix 5 gallons of foam brush soap with 50 gallons of methanol. We shut down when it gets real cold here, pump windshield washer fluid into the weep system, turn off the power and go home. As slow as it’s been lately with the down turn in the economy we might be closed more this winter than in the past. Our primary weep is still water.
Dan kamsickas
GinSan Technician
Windshield washer fluid in the foam brush here in Michigan won't work. When it stays in the single digits for days on end the only thing you can do is use methanol based chemical or pull the foam brushes. I never recommend weeping the foam brush in northern climates like ours either because of the extreme cold stretches.
Yep, just got my Weep system installed today. When I rebuilt my wash back in May, I didn’t install the weep system. Didn’t figure I needed it back then. I just installed all new parts for it. Check valves, tubing, N.O. solenoid from the weep-miser, etc. It’s that time! It was also 37 here this morning with a little frost. I use the -20 windshield washer fluid for my foam brushes, have for many years. It works pretty good until it gets really cold. Which we don’t have too much of that here in Oklahoma. But occasionally we do. If we have an extended period of cold, I just shut everything down and blow out all the lines.
In days past I bought bulk methanol by the drum from a local industrial chemical company. I haven’t checked prices but it was really inexpensive. If your windshield washer fluid is good to -20 it should be close to 35-40% methanol. If the reference chart I just looked at is accurate You could mix it somewhere around 50/50 with already mixed FB detergent and it should work to about 5-10 degrees.
www.engineeringtoolbox.com
Methanol Freeze Protected Heat Transfer Liquids
Freezing and flash points for methanol or methyl based heat-transfer fluids or brines.
www.engineeringtoolbox.com
50/50 is about what I run in it. It’s always worked for me!In days past I bought bulk methanol by the drum from a local industrial chemical company. I haven’t checked prices but it was really inexpensive. If your windshield washer fluid is good to -20 it should be close to 35-40% methanol. If the reference chart I just looked at is accurate You could mix it somewhere around 50/50 with already mixed FB detergent and it should work to about 5-10 degrees.
Methanol Freeze Protected Heat Transfer Liquids
Freezing and flash points for methanol or methyl based heat-transfer fluids or brines.
We it in a freeze rotection system a couple years ago that has worked pretty good. At one tem around 36 deg it blows out the high pressure lines and foam brush with air. At a lower tem around 33-34 deg it blows out the lines and pumps RV fluid or whatever you want in the high pressure lines
No more wasted water!!!
Randy, what does your Anti-Freeze blowdown system consist of? One of these days I'll build the 2biz system, but just never have the time.
I would say it paid for itself in a year maybe a year and a half not to mention the first year I installed it the town had the water off at least 3-4 times times repairing water lines all over town which would have caused my ss bays to freeze up
Attachments
2Biz
Thread Killer!
Slash, I won't take all the credit, the system I designed and installed was derived mostly from the work of CantBreak80. We worked on the program for quite awhile before coming up with an unflawed working program/solution. CantBreak80 has since then taken the program to an entirely different level!
I think what Randy is talking about is just a simplified fasher fluid injection system that makes it easier to fill lines and shut down. I have basically the same thing incorporated with my home-made PLC winterizing system. I used the same flojet for the automatic winterizing system for FB and PS/TF and tied it to the weep system with ball valves for each bay you want to shut down. Turn weep off then pump washer fluid to each bay one at a time. Then close that waherfluid ball valve and move to the next. You'll also need seperate ball valves to shut weep off for the bays you want closed...How it works below...
I'm sure you've seen a photo of my weep system. Here it is again. Weep comes in at the top set of fittings with metering valves then ball valves. Weep lines go to each bay with the Tee fittings below the ball valves. Air and washer fluid come in at the bottom with individual shut off valves. I don't use air any more. Original thought was to fill lines with washer fluid then blow out. But this proved to be problematic at start up. 75% of the time the nozzles would plug with dried flakes from the inside of the HP hose, I'm guessing. Leaving the washer fluid in the lines eliminated the issue. This simple design could be easily incorporated into any current weep system. It takes me about 5-10 minutes maybe to shut down 4 bays. And its always hooked up and ready to use. (The Kip Solenoids are for the automated blowdown air and WF system for below 32°)
With this design or any other like it, keep in mind you you will need a way to shut water off completely to each HP pump. IF you have any HP hose drip out in the bay, that water has to come from somewhere, which is your gravity tank. It doesn't take long to freeze up the bay! Ask me how I figured this out! LOL...AND if you only close a few bays, you'll need a way to shut off SFR to the closed bays. A leaking SFR solenoid will cause you some heartburn too!
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cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
2Biz, Thanks for the acknowledgement. It’s astonishing how long it’s been since we worked on your system.
My current version takes advantage of Sieman’s/IDEC advancements in the SmartRelay platform…specifically it’s networking capability. Several SR can now be networked to provide expanded I/O.
As a result, the installations now control all individual air and liquid solenoids for foaming brush and foam gun products.
It is, however, a pretty involved project to make the conversion. But the result is nearly flawless operation…even during our recent “Polar Vortexes”.
I’ve posted these pics several times but here is one installation (a complete equipment remodel) that I’m particularly proud of.
It features modified Air Logic low pressure panels for FB, PS, Tire, and Bug/Mag cleaner.
All 1/4" LLDPE tubing is housed in an insulated and heated rooftop trough. Product delivery is less than 5 seconds to every bay.
And, no switching to winter formula chemicals!
My current version takes advantage of Sieman’s/IDEC advancements in the SmartRelay platform…specifically it’s networking capability. Several SR can now be networked to provide expanded I/O.
As a result, the installations now control all individual air and liquid solenoids for foaming brush and foam gun products.
It is, however, a pretty involved project to make the conversion. But the result is nearly flawless operation…even during our recent “Polar Vortexes”.
I’ve posted these pics several times but here is one installation (a complete equipment remodel) that I’m particularly proud of.
It features modified Air Logic low pressure panels for FB, PS, Tire, and Bug/Mag cleaner.
All 1/4" LLDPE tubing is housed in an insulated and heated rooftop trough. Product delivery is less than 5 seconds to every bay.
And, no switching to winter formula chemicals!
2Biz
Thread Killer!
Did I mention CantBreak80 has taken it to an "Entirely Different Level"! First photo below is my origianl system that only winterized the TF/PS foam guns. This was installed January 2013! By the following winter, I expanded/redesigned the system to include FB....Even though our systems look entirely different, the concept is basically the same for the winterizing part of the programming. My Hat Goes Off To CB80, he's light years ahead of me! And thats ok, my system has been flawless since installation. I generally don't fix what is not broken! LOL...
Can't believe its been over 10 years now already! Still works the same as the day it was installed!
Can't believe its been over 10 years now already! Still works the same as the day it was installed!
I can't believe it's been that long! I took a crack at it about 3 years ago, but once you suggested I use 3/8" lines for the antifreeze, the project got more complicated and I put it aside for the time being. I have 1/4" lines running to all FB and TF lines for weep, so I was going to use those. Having to swap them all to 3/8" was going to be more involved and I didn't have the time. With 3 SS washes, I would love to get them all on a similar system.
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
slash,
I haven't had any issues using 1/4" poly for washer fluid lines.
2Biz and I have agreed to disagree about this. LOL
6 bay system for foam brushes and foam guns
I haven't had any issues using 1/4" poly for washer fluid lines.
2Biz and I have agreed to disagree about this. LOL
6 bay system for foam brushes and foam guns
2Biz
Thread Killer!
Hmmm....I'm not certain where that came from? I'm using 1/4" poly for my Washer Fluid lines. However, I am using 3/8" for air only because I tied the air lines to my TF hoses inside the ER and they are 3/8"... Since it was such a short run and I didn't have 1/4 to 3/8 Tee's, I used 3/8 poly... So on to my other chemical lines, PS, TF, and FB....I run about 20oz per minute on FB, so I use 1/4" poly out to the bays for chemical. Easily accomplished witha flojet at 60psi. Since I push more than double that (50oz per minute) for PS and TF, I use 3/8 on chemical. You'd need over 100psi to get 50oz of flow per minute out of 1/4" at 75 feet or more. Your not going to do that with a flojet. So upsizing to 3/8" makes it possible using a flojet set at 60psi. Somewhere I read when doing the research, at 75-100ft, the difference between 1/4" and 3/8" poly was 8 times the flow rate at the same PSI. I can tell you it made a huge difference in flow when I changed from 1/4" to 3/8" on PS and TF...But FB is fine since I only push 20 oz per minute. Also our secret sauce system (Washer Fluid) works fine using 1/4" poly....BTW, I use flow meters on everything except the washer fluid, so it makes it easy to see flow rates inside the ER to make all bays the same.
So Flash, what are you waiting on?! You can't use the poly size arguement any more!!! LOL
