Laserwash 4000 questions

[petitemoose]

I'm trying to help a friend that owns a laserwash at his gas station and is having a couple of issues. I've never worked on a PDQ but do have experience with other manufacturers. I called the factory and the only response I could get was to "Call the distributor" and was given a phone number followed by a dial tone. Maybe I just caught somebody on a bad day...
The first issue is that his application arm sits at a 37 degree angle rather than at a 45. We'd like to straighten that out. Is this simply a matter of moving the prox switch targets on the shaft or is there a mechanical way to do this?
Second issue is that the unit washes the vehicle and when it is time for the main unit to dock with the dryer, it does not travel far enough into the dryer to mate the metal with the magnet surface and trip the prox sensors to activate the magnets. The prox switches work as do the magnets when activated. I know this because I physically pulled the two together with my arms and it worked fine. My work around was to space the driver side forward a bit with a piece of 3/4" hose tied to the stop on the rails which closed the gap and allows it to function but certainly that's not Fixed, it's patched. The prox switch ends are adjusted so that they are a credit card thickness from being flush with the surface of the metal below them when the units are manually brought together. I have noticed that the dryer unit sits slightly cocked on the rails with the pass. side closer to the exit. I am assuming this is by design so the passenger side magnets are assured contact when the driver side contact is made.
I've searched the book he has on hand and while there are tons of "Fault Code" explanations, the manual is sadly lacking in other practical information.
I thank you in advance for your responses and helpful hints.

 

[lag]

It has ben a long time since I worked on a docking dryer, But it does sound like the dryer being cocked could very well be a problem, the rollers may be wore out. I do know both sides should set agianst the end stops. the rails also could have been installed out of square,and you may need to make a more pernament fix.

Is all the arm positions out of wack,if so the first thing to check is the motor contactor labeled Y34.get out a volt meter,set it to ohms, turn on output y34,and make sure that the set of contacts that are labeled NO (normally open) are making. When this contacts makes the speed controller gets a signal to run on channel two. normally all you need to do is replace the motor contactor. There are other things that may cause it ,but check the contactor first.

If the arm is out of wack in only one position,you should be able to adjust a prox(or 2) to fix it

PDQ monitors this site from time to time,and you may be able to get a response from this with your post. Do not hold your breath though. You should also be able to talk with a tech at your distributor

 

[lag]

sorry...just reread your post.. the arch will actually stop late ,and take off slow if the NO contacts are bad.. I thought when i first read it,the arch was going to far,looks like it is stopping to soon.

Is it doing it at all 4 stops?

 

[MEP001]

I've never worked on a PDQ but do have experience with other manufacturers. I called the factory and the only response I could get was to "Call the distributor" and was given a phone number followed by a dial tone. Maybe I just caught somebody on a bad day...

Nope, that's how they operate.

 

[petitemoose]

sorry...just reread your post.. the arch will actually stop late ,and take off slow if the NO contacts are bad.. I thought when i first read it,the arch was going to far,looks like it is stopping to soon.

Is it doing it at all 4 stops?

Yes, it does it at all 4 stops in either auto or manual mode. speed is constant and normal.

 

[petitemoose]

Nope, that's how they operate.

THERE's some good news!! PLEASE tell me you're pulling my chain.

 

[ken-pro]

petitemoose,

It sounds like the arch index cam (Prox targets) - This is attached using 3 or 4 allen head screws to the shaft -- Loosen them to adjust the cam until your happy and then apply some blue loctite and tighten - The vibration in the HP line can loosen these over time. Also ensure this piece is rust free, and that the prox sensors are adjusted to no more than 1/8" clearance

 

[petitemoose]

Thanks Kevin, I suspected that could be a fix but didn't want to make things worse by tinkering without a clue. This procedure is very similar to the Vector Alignment procedure with their arms.
Don't suppose you have any ideas about the docking dryer failure do you?

 

[ken-pro]

Don't suppose you have any ideas about the docking dryer failure do you?

Unfortunately I've never worked with a docking dryer - I am a Washworld distributor / tech so my PDQ knowledge is limited to the bridge and pump station.

 

[lag]

Cam adjustment should fix the arch. When the arch is in home position ,the set screw is on the passenger side of the arch. I usually need to apply heat to the cam to get it to move,unless it is a new install.

Agian,I think the fact that the dryer is not square,is the issue,the drivers side prox makes then supplys power to the passenger side prox, allowing both magnets to come on.Sorry I can not give you more info on the docking dryer.

 

[mac]

petitemoose, you have discovered one of the traits of the PDQ machine. That is the factory will refer you to the distributor, who when he learns that you work on these, can merrily just hang up on you. I do know from working on these that the bridge and dryer have to be parallel to dock properly. If one is crooked, get it straight and see what happens. Also check the air in the tires. Should be at least 20 psi. You can also call wash world for tech support on these. Even though they didn't build it, they know them very well, and have most of the parts you'll need.

 

[newhampshiretech]

the docking dryer on a 4000 can be a bear.


definate things to have

rails level and plumb but... pitched down slightly at the dryer end so the dryer bridge if pulled towards exit a foot or so would roll back to home.

and the drier should sit square at the end stops.

with machine at home turn to manual pull machine back towards entrance the forward toward dryer and hold forward till machine "creeps" forward to the dryer
after you hear the dryer engage the magnets release the joystick and go and look at how the magnets and teardrops are aligned etc . look at the connection any air gaps? should be a solid and well centered connection. and also look to see if the bolts that hold the teardrops in place are protruding behind the tear drop approximately the same amount on both the left and right. this can be a sign of a cocked machine or dryer. or maybe when it drove forward the tires just spin and never makes it to the dryer. flat or bald tires , bad drive coupling, Ive even seen crazy things like the diamond plate welds on the rail breaking and physically hindering movement. or a front limit switch that is reading the nut that holds the rail to the turnbuckle as the home flag then getting confused when it moves forward.


or if the home flag is to far towards the entranc end the rear limit switch may read it and you get the fr +rr limit failure.

I know this is a long list of babble as my mind flows out through the keyboard. sorry hope some of it may spark a hint to your problem though.

 

[newboy]

with regard to the alignment problem between the dryer and the bridge, assuming that the rails are installed properly, the rollers on both the bridge and the dryer could be worn and cause the alignment problem.
the magnet prox switches need to be set back far enough from the "target" to keep the bridge "driving" into the dryer. if the prox's are engaged before the target and magnet are mated, the bridge will stop moving toward the dryer. we have seen this problem repeatedly with worn rollers.
the dryer must square on the rails and rail stops. not cocked.
with regard to the top spray bar being at the wrong angle. did this just start to work this way or was a repair made or part replaced prior to this fault. was the arch rotate gear box replaced. i have caused this fault on one of our machines when i replaced the a-5000 controller and did not set the internal dip switches properly.

as you continue to help your friend maintain his laser, you will continue to get little or no help from pdq direct. you may need parts for repairs and will not be able to purchase them from pdq. you will be once agan directed to the distributor.
for what it is worth, washworld sells parts for the laserwash 4000. their tech support people are top shelf

 

[petitemoose]

Looks like I'll check into why the dryer is sitting crooked on the rails. There is a definate air gap between the passenger and driver side of 3/4".

As for the spray bar, He had the distributor change out the joystick controller/VFD box in the Main Cabinet. He went to move the carriage in manual mode and a small fire started in the control cabinet in the back room. Wasn't hard to diagnose that problem! We both can't remember the spray arm being crooked proir to that.

I'm happy to see I don't have to depend on PDQ to help me keep their machine running. Sad thing is, If they'd advise me on how or what to do, They'd benefit by making parts sales. As it stands now, they are losing revenue in parts sales, getting a bad name as far as customer service is concerned, and providing me with ammunition against them in the sales world.

Thanks for ALL of the helpful suggestions!

 

[lag]

If the VFD is new ,you may have a decel time for channel 2 set incorrectly, if it is then you will also see the trolley stop a little quicker also. Good luck ,Lag

 

[carwashinkev]

I have 2 machines with docking dryers. They are great when they work and they do most of the time. When they don't work good luck. I had a similar problem with one of mine. The rails were out of square, so I actually got a square u bolt that would fit around the rail and a piece of angle iron. I drilled holes in the angle iron so the u bolt would go through it and made a homemade stop. It has worked great for over 3 years. If the machine is not approaching the dryers you might have to adjust your front flag a little closer to the dryer. This would get the bridge closer. Just be careful because if you get it too close it will slam. Also make sure the prox switch on the front (home) flag is adjusted properly. If you have metal flags that are rusted that might be a concern aswell. You can change those out to stainless steel if they look bad. If you do you have to bring all of them in a little. They are a little slower to respond. Hope this helps.

 

[petitemoose]

Update

Thanks to the recommendations from this board I was able to fix the crooked arm issue. I adjusted the prox target (cam) and the arm now looks correct.
The dryer is also docking now but I had to create a "work around" to get it done. The dryer was sitteg cock-eyed and I was told it always has from day one. I adjusted the stop on the drivers side rail forward to so there is now only one bolt in the exit side thread on the rail. It not that big of a deal because the original installer didn't put two bolts in it anyway. The dryer now sits only 1/8" out of square between the two magnet plates. I ran the machine and it docked the first time after the reset and the second run it did not. The carriage did not travel forward into the dryer. I am now thinking it is a prox/ positioning target issue. I look at the targets and two of the three are rusted and warped. As the carriage passes by the middle target, the lower target is almost struck by the plate and the other is 3/4" away. I cleaned the plates and tried to bend them straight but got nervous that I may break one. SO, I moved the home target 1/2" closer to the exit so the carriage parks closer to the dryer. That did it.
We now have a large diameter prox switch and two targets on order. He has a buddy that runs another c-Store that can somehow get parts. I don't ask because I really don't want to know. When they arrrive I'm going to adjust the prox switches so that they are within 1/4" of the targets so I can be assured of accurate detection by the PLC. Hopefully this will ultimately fix the docking issue.
If i'm headed in the wrong direction... Let me know. You aren't going to hurt my feelings!

Once again, I thank all of you who have helped me with this machine.

 

[newhampshiretech]

the only other thing id glance at since it docked once and didnt even attempt on the second pass. is to make sure after reset, run a test wash then after the car leaves the bay and the machine resets check to see that x-56 is lit in the jo cabinet to know that the dryer has been dropped properly at home and is in home position at the end of a wash.

 

[petitemoose]

Will Do. I am replacing the Prox Target "T" for the dryer as well. It was rusty and thin. I think the biggest improvement I can make is to set the prox switches closer to the targets. Right now the gap is an incredible 3/4" away. I've always set up the prox switches to be under 1/4" from the targets. Is there a reason PDQ has them so far away?
To really show my unfamiliarity with this machine ... Splain to me " x-56 is lit in the jo cabinet " jo cabinet is... Junk Only ummm Jerry rigged Oddity ... Just Obsolete... Overloaded Jumper (No, that would be OJ) I'm kinda lost on the abbreviated termonology

 

[ken-pro]

Will Do. I am replacing the Prox Target "T" for the dryer as well. It was rusty and thin. I think the biggest improvement I can make is to set the prox switches closer to the targets. Right now the gap is an incredible 3/4" away. I've always set up the prox switches to be under 1/4" from the targets. Is there a reason PDQ has them so far away?
To really show my unfamiliarity with this machine ... Splain to me " x-56 is lit in the jo cabinet " jo cabinet is... Junk Only ummm Jerry rigged Oddity ... Just Obsolete... Overloaded Jumper (No, that would be OJ) I'm kinda lost on the abbreviated termonology

J0 cabinet is Junction Box Zero - This is the main cabinet with the keypad and printer

All the other PDQ supplied junction boxes have J? numbers as well.