LED Actual Graphical Layout Studies?

[mjwalsh]

Has anyone else used a lighting layout tool similar what we did that was specific to the 72 watt cool white LED outdoor fixture? We considered the 144 watt version but we wanted to avoid being forced to mount the light 12 feet height minimum. Below is a screen shot of when we used the Wisconsin outfit's layout tool. The lower placement of four separate 72w LEDs are the ones that are relevant. Two of the fixtures were set at a 45° tilt, one with a 50° tilt, & one with a 60° tilt. All four were set at 10 feet height. Here is a link to the fixture that we ordered. Keep in mind we have not received or installed them yet.

This is the fixture:
http://www.e-conolight.com/e-hl5f06c2z.html

Note on the full specifications that they have determined that it is comparable to a 150w Pulse Start Metal Halide. From observations on my more linear 833 lumens per foot tube car wash G&G LEDs ... it seems like much of the added efficiency is from the more directional nature of LEDs vs having to rely on what might be questionable rear added reflection of the variety of fluorescent bulbs.

Below is the screenshot of the layout tool.



mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[wash4me]

Directional is a benefit on a new layout where you can space poles like you want them. On an existing install the "spill light" of the traditional hid lighting is a benefit. Metal Halide is very close in efficacy and has a lower initial cost. They will need to be worked on more than the led over time though.

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW I think that 150W MH is inadequate for most uses. I would think you would need the equivelency of at least double that.

 

[wash4me]

Brighter with an led makes a brighter spot and not necessarily more spread. It could even create the perception of more darkness because of the contrast.

 

[mjwalsh]

FWIW I think that 150W MH is inadequate for most uses. I would think you would need the equivelency of at least double that.

Earl,

If you look at the full specifications of their 144 watt light it shows the equivalent of 400W MH that can also be used on with their nifty layout tool. Their tech support said that the LEDS were made by Cree Corporation which is the same LED OEM as what G&G LEDs uses ... so I am at this point pretty confident of the quality ... plus they were recommended by some other Car Wash Forum members. I am not sure if Keith Baker of Omaha went ahead with them or not.

Here is the link to the one that they say compares to a 400W MH: http://www.e-conolight.com/shop-by-product/led-products/led-floodlight/e-hl6f11csz.html

On their homepage on the left hand side it shows the layout tool (both indoor & outdoor) & with their step by step tutorials. Pretty easy learning curve. http://www.e-conolight.com/ There are other layout lighting tools out there that will allow other brands ... that is kind of what I had in mind if anyone else on the forum had gone a bit more in depth along line of a computer simulation of where the light overlaps enough so it does an even enough lighting similar to well spaced G&G LEDs. The G&Gs have 833 lumens per foot from their narrow tubes so for some areas that might be the better fit ... such as inside of self service bays themselves. It seems like there can be the low voltage wiring installation advantages with separate 24vdc power supplies like G&G has.

In the laundry-car wash parking area of our situation the city has a large street light that hopefully will get enough light to make up for the fade out somewhat ... time will tell. It will be quite an improvement over our existing feeble 90W Par Halogen hardware store style floodlights that are also 10 feet height at this point. I was told that the equivalents to the 400 MH are too bright unless mounted at least 12 high. They also have some equivalents between the 150W & the 400W Floods. I am not sure if these specific LEDs can be easily dimmed where needed. The most concentrated LED foot candles &/or lumens in the screenshot are where 3 vacuums are & where our new Air Hose is.

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[Earl Weiss]

>>The lower placement of four separate 72w LEDs are the ones that are relevant. ..................
Note on the full specifications that they have determined that it is comparable to a 150w Pulse Start Metal Halide.<<<

>>If you look at the full specifications of their 144 watt light it shows the equivalent of 400W MH<<

From your first post noted above it seems you were looking for an equivelant of a 150W MH. I believe a 144W LED should equal a 400W MH since i replaced my Tunnel ceiling 400W MH woth 150 W from TSS and the LEDs are brighter (although they were 20+ years old) than those and newer 320W Scottsdales.

My point from post #3 was I think installing a 150W MH or it's equivelant LED is inadequate for most car wash applications.

 

[washnvac]

I just installed 12 of the 144watt floods at 2 locations. The light is definitely more intense, but there is way less spill out versus the 400watt mh floods that I had. I may end up adding a third light to each pole to get the coverage I had. There is still a 368 watt savings with three 144 watters versus two 400 watters.

I have not been back up at night just yet to play with positioning a little more, but I still think I will have some dead space that I need to cover with another unit.

 

[mjwalsh]

WashnVac,

Thanks for the input. How high are your lights mounted? About what is the tilt outward or downward angle? Did you find the layout tool helpful in tweaking the tilt angles & heights? If the customers aren't satisfied with the level of light we can add a 144 Watt later or strategically place more 72 watt fixtures. Whale of Wash seemed happy with his Cooper 50 Watt in his parking & vacuum areas for some of his locations on a previous post. If the LEDS are brighter to begin with than really needed ... I would think that the extended life after the 50K or 100K hours could be of value for some also.

We just got a few inches of fresh snow overnight. Since during the shortest days of the year there is usually snow reflecting so that is a factor that I have not seen discussed on the forum so far either. After we close at 10 PM our need for light is way less so there could be tweaking for the outdoor parking & vacuum areas in terms of turning all or some of the lights off. Our laundromat future LED indoor lighting by our large thermopane windows will definitely be controlled by the proven very precise analog to PLC module light sensor ... that we have in our polycarbonate dog wash.

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW (Not Much) I would stat our by buying one 72Watt and one 144 Watt and play around with them before deciding what else to buy.

That's what I did with the Tunnel Lights. Bought and installed one 150 Watt, left it in place for a couple months then bought the rest.

 

[Randy]

At the last WCA convention I stopped by the G & G lighting LED booth. There LED lights are impressive but so is the price, $6400 to do a small 4 bay car wash. It would take the rest of my natural life to get any return on LED lighting, I’ll keep my 8’ T-12 H.O fluorescent lights a little longer. My total power bill at the car wash runs around $190 a month.

 

[washnvac]

WashnVac,

How high are your lights mounted? About what is the tilt outward or downward angle?

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

These are on 25 foot poles. I did not use the lighting tool. My state had rebate money to replace fixtues, so I simply ordered the highest wattage led replacements for parking lot light and wall packs and canopys that were supported by the program. So everything was a one for one swap.

400 watt MH floods got 144 watt cool white led floods (40 degree beam angle), 250 watt MH wall packs got 72 watt cool white led wall pack, 70 watt MH canopy fot 42 watt cool white led canopy, 100 watt MH cutoff wall packs got 36 watt cool white led wall pack. All in all, I ordered $5000 worth of lights from E-Conolight. Floods are angled at about 45 degrees down.

I just have a couple more wall packs to put up before it is all finished. I have my own bucket truck, so it helps a lot, obviously. Overall I am happy with all the products. I will pass final judgement on the floods once I can get up there at night and play with the adjustments. Like I said, even if I have to add one more, I am ahead of the game.