Liquid versus Powder detergents?
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soapy
Senior Member
Liquids are easier to use. Powders cost about 1/3 the cost of liquid presoak and work just as well in my experience. Powder is a little more hassle to mix but well worth the savings IMO. I use 65 gallon agricultural tanks and when I get down to 10 gallons I mix up a premeasured box that is for 55 gallons. I have found powders that readily dissolve and that stay in suspension. It takes about 5 minutes to mix up 55 gallons. I then use a injector with a in line flow meter to control application.
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MEP001
Well-known member
I like using powder with a basket and some type of auto mixer. I saw a really old car wash that had a hopper similar to a handheld fertilizer spreader powered with an electric motor that ran whenever a bay was on soap. It just sprinkled powder over the tank that was kept filled with a float valve.
Some powders dissolve evenly enough that you can use a Hydrominder and a pair of needle valves, one just filling the tank and one controlling the flow to a basket sprayer. You control the concentration by adjusting the flow to the tank. I had been using that system and it worked perfectly from the time I filled the basket to the time it was almost completely empty, but I switched to a soap that wouldn't work consistently. I ordered the pH sensing mixer from Kleen-Rite to control flow over the basket and that worked great with three different soaps I've tried. I very much prefer this method since I only have to put soap in the basket once or twice a week.
I've experimented a bit with mixing powder soap in a drum, but the main problem there is that you usually have to run the Hydrominder with no tip, so you can use up 10-15 gallons in a day. It's too easy to run out. If I ever had to do that, I'd mix the soap in one barrel and transfer it into another with a pump as well as connect the two barrels together with a valve. Actually as I'm sitting here thinking about it, I'd have the mixing barrel sitting about a foot higher and just connect the two with a valve, then when the mix barrel is empty I could just close the valve, mix more and open the valve.
Some powders dissolve evenly enough that you can use a Hydrominder and a pair of needle valves, one just filling the tank and one controlling the flow to a basket sprayer. You control the concentration by adjusting the flow to the tank. I had been using that system and it worked perfectly from the time I filled the basket to the time it was almost completely empty, but I switched to a soap that wouldn't work consistently. I ordered the pH sensing mixer from Kleen-Rite to control flow over the basket and that worked great with three different soaps I've tried. I very much prefer this method since I only have to put soap in the basket once or twice a week.
I've experimented a bit with mixing powder soap in a drum, but the main problem there is that you usually have to run the Hydrominder with no tip, so you can use up 10-15 gallons in a day. It's too easy to run out. If I ever had to do that, I'd mix the soap in one barrel and transfer it into another with a pump as well as connect the two barrels together with a valve. Actually as I'm sitting here thinking about it, I'd have the mixing barrel sitting about a foot higher and just connect the two with a valve, then when the mix barrel is empty I could just close the valve, mix more and open the valve.
PEI
Active member
With soaps the raw ingredients are usually all powders and then RO water is added to turn them into liquids. Buying powders cost less than the comparable liquid because there is less involved in making and shipping it. It usually works as well because it is usually the same soap. Which one is better is simply a matter of preference. The powder is cheaper but requires more effort and planning on your part in order to provide a product of the same quality and strength at all times. The liquid in a non-concentrate form requires simply moving soap lines or pumping into holding tanks. The liquid in a concentrate form simply requires keeping their reservoirs filled. When I had to deal with large drums in my equipment room, I chose the cost savings of the powder. Now I use liquid concentrates with reservoirs and would never go back. It saves space, keeps everything neat and clean, and saves time. It's costs a little more per car, but the convenience is worth it in my case.
Not sure I agree with the statement that liquid soaps are manufactured mixing powdered raw ingredients into RO water. Quality detergents usually mix some of the ingredients as powder but important ingredients like specialized surfactants, emulsifiers or sequestering agents are almost always liquids or liquid blends. I have seen some that were mixed with only liquids.
Powders are not always cheaper. Much depends on the product and usage. There is also the possibility of super saturation and clogging injectors or nozzles. Obviously powders require additional work in mixing the solution and the need for large containers. One should definitely mix powders with RO or soft water. If you are happy with using them and feel it is best for you I certainly would not be critical of you but for convenience and accuracy it is really hard if not impossible to duplicate liquids. One word of caution when using either. I would recommend using a branded product rather than a local blend. Most local manufacturers do not have good quality control measures so products can vary in consistency and quality casing performance issues.
Powders are not always cheaper. Much depends on the product and usage. There is also the possibility of super saturation and clogging injectors or nozzles. Obviously powders require additional work in mixing the solution and the need for large containers. One should definitely mix powders with RO or soft water. If you are happy with using them and feel it is best for you I certainly would not be critical of you but for convenience and accuracy it is really hard if not impossible to duplicate liquids. One word of caution when using either. I would recommend using a branded product rather than a local blend. Most local manufacturers do not have good quality control measures so products can vary in consistency and quality casing performance issues.
Earl Weiss
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Been there done that with powders and mixers. PITA.
The only powder I'm familiar with is Blendco. Here in FL almost every Blendco site I see has issues. Their reps either do not claibrate it or don't know how. When I had a lot of customers on it, we were constantly having to make adjustments. It does cost more to ship liquids, but it's easier to consistently dilute.
The Blendco Supersat system is the best powdered one out there but it is not as cost efficient as they claim it to be. What I really like about it is the ability to tune in the system to get the best performance from your wash. However that depends on how well you understand the system. Making a wrong adjustment could screw the whole thing up. This also eliminates having to switch products if performance or cost becomes an issue. Another factor is that you still will be dealing with liquids anyway because you need to inject additives along with the powder mix. If you don't mind paying a little more and are willing to learn the proper way to manage the system it could be one you would like.
I use KR “Super wash” for my Presoak, it’s only $70.75 for a 50lb.box, it mixes up easy and stays in solution. I mix it up in 5 gallon batches. It only takes me a few minutes to mix up a batch, not a big deal. I mix it up in 5 gallon batches. Once it’s mixed up I never touch it again until I need to mix up another batch.
soonermajic
Well-known member
Randy, do you put 5lbs in , with each 5 gal batch? Just screw the lid on & shake it up like crazy? Mix w/ soft or hot water? Sounds like that would last a long time & be CHEAP!
Soonermajic, I mix 80 oz. or 5 lbs. of Kleen-Rite "Super Wash" to 5 gallons of hot water, we don’t have soft water here, don’t need it. I mix it in an open top 15-gallon container, I stir it with a 1” piece of gray conduit until it’s dissolved. When it gets down to about 6 or 8 inches remaining the 15-gallon container I dump in 5 gallons of hot water and add 80 oz. of powder and stir. Each batch lasts about 45 days or so and takes less than 5 minutes to mix up. Each 5 gallon batch costs about $6.50.
That sounds enticing! I use Warsaw Black Cherry for HP soap... Its about $60 for a 5 gallon pail. I have never had any issues using it, like dropping out of solution, clogged hydrominder tips, or clogged fv's.... So its hard to change. But $6.50 per 5 gallons sure gets my attention. You ever had any problems with it? FV issues, clogged metering valves, etc? How much is shipping for a 50 lb box? Do you mix any other powdered chemicals for the wash?
Waxman
Super Moderator
I was turned on to powders by Soapy and Randy years ago and this one tip has saved me thousands on chemical costs!
I use Simoniz Correct powder, 50lb box, with 1/3 of a 5 gallon pail ( 1.66 gal) of Simoniz foam additive. This one soap is my In Bay Automatic presoak ( both passes ), HP wash on self serves and foamy brush soap. I also use this same formula for hand washing our detail shop details ( add 3 pumps in 5 gal pail for hand wash ).
What a great way to save money while putting out a nice wash.
I agree this is more work than using liquids. However, if I had a bigger car wash, I'd install a tall, large capacity agricultural tank and a power mixer and mix up larger batches.
I use Simoniz Correct powder, 50lb box, with 1/3 of a 5 gallon pail ( 1.66 gal) of Simoniz foam additive. This one soap is my In Bay Automatic presoak ( both passes ), HP wash on self serves and foamy brush soap. I also use this same formula for hand washing our detail shop details ( add 3 pumps in 5 gal pail for hand wash ).
What a great way to save money while putting out a nice wash.
I agree this is more work than using liquids. However, if I had a bigger car wash, I'd install a tall, large capacity agricultural tank and a power mixer and mix up larger batches.
Waxman, do you mix the 50# box and 1.66 gallons of foam additive to a 55 gallon drum?
Maybe when I retire and have more time on my hands to watch over things, I'll look into this further. Another benefit I see is how much room could be captured in my garage....12-15 (5) gallon pails take up a lot of room!
Maybe when I retire and have more time on my hands to watch over things, I'll look into this further. Another benefit I see is how much room could be captured in my garage....12-15 (5) gallon pails take up a lot of room!
Waxman
Super Moderator
yes. i fill a 55 half way with hot water, add powder and foam additive and stir and then fill the rest of the way while stirring.
washnshine
Well-known member
Waxman,
I checked out Correct on the KR site after seeing you used it. I see it is corrosive - do you have any problems with using that for your hand washes in the detail shop?
Waxman
Super Moderator
all the presoaks are corrosive.
no, i've never had a problem. i use 3 pumps per 5 gal pail of water for hand washing, so it's fairly dilute.
no, i've never had a problem. i use 3 pumps per 5 gal pail of water for hand washing, so it's fairly dilute.
carwashireland
Active member
I have extensively used both powder and liquid. I liked Blendco's supersat tank as it seems to last, I also used an all in one powdee so no additional surfactamts needed. Now though I use a liquid presoak which is diluted to 160:1 & lasts for ages. 5 gal bucket lasts the same time as a box of blendco powder. I just like the fact it is easy to work with. Also less chance of the site car wash attendant messing it up.
