limey
New member
Which gives the best results in a touch-less IBA? Just about to open and am experimenting with the chemicals. What works best?
Low /PH HIGH PH OR HIGH PH/LOW PH?
- Thread starter limey
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Waxman
Super Moderator
I used to use low then hi. worked well. now i am hi-hi
robert roman
Bob Roman
The optimal result will be achieved by using alkaline (high pH, meaning greater than 7) followed by acidic (low pH, less than 7).
Either (high/low or low/high) creates heat of neutralization but high/low tends to rinse better.
Because of customer satisfaction, I would experiment before opening.
Either (high/low or low/high) creates heat of neutralization but high/low tends to rinse better.
Because of customer satisfaction, I would experiment before opening.
limey
New member
Thanks a lot
termn8tr
Member
One strong pass of High PH only, approx 3oz. the presoak remains on the vehicle for a total of 85 seconds. (Application and dwell time)
robert roman
Bob Roman
That recipe might work in Canada but in Florida cars would turn white on a hot day.
I have talked to several car wash chemists that say there is no such thing as heat created during neutralization. I personally prefer low/high but have seen it work well high/low also. I would suggest you try both and see what works best for you. One thing you should do when you test is to be sure to do it on your best package so you can see how they react with your extra service chemicals.
limey
New member
Thank you all very much
robert roman
Bob Roman
You are welcome and;
“I have talked to several car wash chemists that say there is no such thing as heat created during neutralization.”
Heat of neutralization or enthalpy is the change in enthalpy that occurs when one equivalent of an acid and one equivalent of a base undergo a neutralization reaction to form water and a salt.
Enthalpy is the thermodynamic potential that consists of internal energy of the system plus the product of pressure and volume of the system.
When a reaction is carried out at 77 degrees F. (25 Celsius) and one standard atmosphere and one mole of water is formed it is called the standard enthalpy of neutralization.
A friend who teaches physics at USF explained this to me. He’s pretty smart.
So, I would say you didn’t ask the right question or those chemists aren’t really chemists.
“I have talked to several car wash chemists that say there is no such thing as heat created during neutralization.”
Heat of neutralization or enthalpy is the change in enthalpy that occurs when one equivalent of an acid and one equivalent of a base undergo a neutralization reaction to form water and a salt.
Enthalpy is the thermodynamic potential that consists of internal energy of the system plus the product of pressure and volume of the system.
When a reaction is carried out at 77 degrees F. (25 Celsius) and one standard atmosphere and one mole of water is formed it is called the standard enthalpy of neutralization.
A friend who teaches physics at USF explained this to me. He’s pretty smart.
So, I would say you didn’t ask the right question or those chemists aren’t really chemists.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Your friend at USF probably doesn't work at car washes. heat of neutralization does exist, but not in the practical environment of a car wash.
Next time you are at a car wash, take a thermometer and place it in a container. Place a cup of your high ph and your low ph presoaks together, watch the thermometer. Prepare to be unimpressed.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
IMO, RPH is probably the best chemical guy on the forum so I would listen to him. My experience has been that different things works for different people. I use a weak low ph pass on most washes as pass 1, followed by a VERY strong caustic high ph pass on pass two that would make most car wash chemists break out in a sweat.
Cars in the IBA environment are much tougher to damage than some believe. There are some isolated problems. You have probably sen faded plastic on some GM trucks. Also, black anodized aluminium trim on some cars that does not have a clearcoat. But by and large factory cllearcoat finishes are tough. I have washed my 15 year old truck well over 1000 times, letting strong solutions dry on it many times while working on an IBA. It still looks fine for it's age. In the past couple years the plastic has started to fade, but the paint looks fine.
My basic guidance would be to determine where your are less satisfied with your cleaning. If it is the painted surface, you will likely benefit from high ph first. If your problem is on glass and eyebrow, you may want to try low ph first.
Cars in the IBA environment are much tougher to damage than some believe. There are some isolated problems. You have probably sen faded plastic on some GM trucks. Also, black anodized aluminium trim on some cars that does not have a clearcoat. But by and large factory cllearcoat finishes are tough. I have washed my 15 year old truck well over 1000 times, letting strong solutions dry on it many times while working on an IBA. It still looks fine for it's age. In the past couple years the plastic has started to fade, but the paint looks fine.
My basic guidance would be to determine where your are less satisfied with your cleaning. If it is the painted surface, you will likely benefit from high ph first. If your problem is on glass and eyebrow, you may want to try low ph first.
One instance where there was a noticeable difference was when there is an issue with bugs like love bugs in Florida. A first pass of strong hi pH did much better than lo/hi especially if you allow a little extra dwell time. In areas where they use that road "goo" instead of salt during winter months that is also a better configuration.
I would like to through this out there... sometimes you are not paying more money for the chemicals but you are paying for the knowledge on the chemicals and the set up. It's not a "no brainer" getting a clean car out of a touchless.
mrfixit
Member
Our wash has been set up low high for years. I never thought there was any so called heat created or any benefit at all. The magical heat, if any, isn't enough to make a difference.
All the acid did was neutralize the base in my opinion - The cleaning agent. Sure in certain circumstances acids are needed but not always. Only way to find out is to try it at your wash.
I recently switched to base base passes. And im really happy with it. Especially for bugs.. Tritrated low on the first pass and regular on the second. With 20&30 sec dwells. Lo/hi, hi/lo could never come close in 10 years.
But it depends on the chemicals being used , I'm using ryko 360 so it is buffered or something, but high pH none the less. - PH around 11.5-11.8
All the acid did was neutralize the base in my opinion - The cleaning agent. Sure in certain circumstances acids are needed but not always. Only way to find out is to try it at your wash.
I recently switched to base base passes. And im really happy with it. Especially for bugs.. Tritrated low on the first pass and regular on the second. With 20&30 sec dwells. Lo/hi, hi/lo could never come close in 10 years.
But it depends on the chemicals being used , I'm using ryko 360 so it is buffered or something, but high pH none the less. - PH around 11.5-11.8
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Waxman
Super Moderator
FWIW: I have been trying different powders since a few friends here on ACF suggested them. Last week I made a batch of Simoniz Correct powder with some foam additive mixed in. I am vry pleased with the results! It is leaving the cars looking buffed when they exit the touch free; stripped of dirt, shiny and soft to the touch. Pretty amazing for a 10 year old Side Trac 700R!