LW4000 Triple Foam Option

[GoBuckeyes]

My machine isn't currently set up for triple foam but I would like to know how it in fact works. By that I mean how many outputs are specifically for TF? I assume there is one for the injector solenoid, possibly its own air assist and maybe a sign output. What parameters do you have control over? I think I have read about a pre-fill to charge the lines that happens during the previous pass. Then TF would be applied front to back. Is there any control for its trip back to front? Is it actually pumping TF the whole way home or is it just blowing the lines out the whole way? Lastly, can the TF pass be inserted anywhere in the wash program or does it have to follow a specific pass? One last question, I think my distributor uses a PLC for Rain-X on the 4000, does Triple Foam require one too? Thanks.

 

[robert roman]

If I owned a 4000, I wouldn’t spend money to add a device to apply tri-foam or a device to create lava effect so you can sell hot wax.

First of all, adding either or both will increase service time and reduce hourly capacity.

Second, tri-foam contains no polish. Tri-foam may shine a bit if it contains siliconized soap or carnauba of which very few tri-foam products on market contain because it’s expensive.

Third, tri-foam doesn’t condition either because we know after pre-soak(s) dwells and high-pressure water is applied, touch-less is cleaning is over.

After this, it’s a simply a matter of splashing on chemical and rinsing it right off.

I would use this to my advantage.

Color and aroma can be added to second pre-soak that effervesce slightly.

People don’t spend $4.00 for hot wax because it looks like volcano lava with pretty lights.

They repeat because the product shines their vehicle, it makes paint feel smooth, it beads water like crazy and it can hold up for several weeks.

Lava effect and lights aren’t needed to apply the product. It can be applied from the L just like Rain-X or drying agent and use less too.

Thus, there is single stage cleaning, two-stage cleaning option (has color, aroma) followed by shine/protection. Option 1 is total body like Rain-X or ICE. Option 2 is extended protection hot wax or similar. Drying agent would only be needed for single stage wash.

Want colored lights, run output to a couple of LED flood lights mounted on side wall shining down on car.

 

[PEI]

It has been a long time since I ran Triple Foam pods on one of our LW4000's, but there is no extra PLC. The programming is entirely contained on the A-5000's Version Chip. They sell the kit with the pods and extra injectors. It requires 1 Danfoss with 3 injectors after it and three seperate lines to take it to the Pods. You also have to have a fourth line to take air to the Pods. Having an extra air regulator controlling that line helps to control the foaming and spray. The TF can be applied anywhere in the wash and does not require a specific pattern to work. You control the purging and when it cuts off with the LW4000's Automatic Parameters settings. If you decide to install it, remember it uses air to blow down the lines and does not weep the lines, this makes it prone to freezing in the winter. I would also recommend looking for colored low pH foam to apply to help with drying.

If you want to take Robert's advice then you can add a PLC to read the Foaming Wax Danfoss Valve and apply TF through the arch in a large vertical stripe pattern. This takes additional plumbing and you will need to build everything yourself since no one sells this way of applying TF.

 

[robert roman]

“If you want to take Robert's advice then….add a PLC…..additional plumbing….build everything yourself…..no one sells this way of applying TF.”

Exactly, the industry doesn’t want to because it sells more equipment and chemical, not less of.

As far as I’m concerned, unless one of the three colored foams contains a wax, tri-foam is a joke. I wouldn’t pay a dime for it because I know better.

If some colored foam is desired for show, make the second pre-soak do so.

 

[robert roman]

The reason is the real money is selling customers protection, higher margin hydrophobic products that work.

 

[wash4me]

So the triple foam could be plumbed to 3 solenoid valves that "rotate" which color every second or so and this would allow the arch to apply triple foam that's striped? Has anyone done this or is this a joke?

 

[PEI]

So the triple foam could be plumbed to 3 solenoid valves that "rotate" which color every second or so and this would allow the arch to apply triple foam that's striped? Has anyone done this or is this a joke?

We have done this and it works just fine. We use a PLC for a Carolina Pride self serve system's triple foam to change between the three injectors. You have to create a manifold to bring the three lines back into one and you need to provide it with its own air regulator.

I agree with Robert about colored soap versus colored polishes that provide shine and hydrophobic properties. If you are going to go through the arch, then you might as well take full advantage of the even coverage and the ability to apply to both the front and rear surfaces. When you put this together with a quality sealant, you will get the shiniest vehicles possible through your iba. All of that said, I should mention that applying triple foam polish through the arch does use more product per vehicle.

 

[whitescout]

@ wash4me, I believe what PEI is saying, is that you can send the triple foam product out through the spray arm. I assume that he is using the foam polish pass to do this. The PLC is rotating three solenoid valves to change the color of the product delivering it to the manifold, and then to the spray arm. You could do the same thing a little cheaper, by using a sequential timer.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I'm actually not thinking of applying TF but using the programming to apply a Hot Wax type super sealant. I wanted the TF programming so that I could charge the lines while washing and not have to wait, apply it faster than going around the entire car, and blow it out after-the-fact. I know PDQ sells a hot wax applicator kit but I could build two of them for less than one of theirs cost. As far as keeping it from freezing I was thinking of either anti-freeze injection. (Kinda iffy) or more likely a heated tube of antifreeze inside of the hose going to the bridge. Although it's kind of late in the season to be trying to engineer this.
My software obviously doesn't have the TF function or I would've seen it in the programming. Is swapping the software chip a bulletproof process or do bugs rear their heads after-the-fact and have to be dealt with?

 

[whitescout]

What version of software do you have? If you have any other version other than 18 or 19, you can simply add triple foam into your systems options number. If you have 18 or 19, you will need help from PDQ as the option numbers are encrypted. If you do NOT have 18 or 19, simply add 262144 to your current systems options number, and then triple foam will show up in the wash program menu.

You will need to wire any solenoids for chemical/air from output 24. You will gain a "fill delay timer" that will give you the fill that you want. By selecting triple foam as a wash pass, it will change the movement of the carriage, but will still energize output 24 for chemicals. That means, you will lose the ability to use foam polish, and will need to disconnect the dan foss valve for foam polish on the LP manifold.

As far as purging the lines after application, I would not recommend antifreeze, as you will spray this into the bay, and could end up on the vehicle. If using air, you could use a delay on make relay that is energized by output 24, and waits to make until the end of the pass. Another option would be to have it blow down after the bay is clear after the wash is complete.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

What version of software do you have? If you have any other version other than 18 or 19, you can simply add triple foam into your systems options number. If you have 18 or 19, you will need help from PDQ as the option numbers are encrypted. If you do NOT have 18 or 19, simply add 262144 to your current systems options number, and then triple foam will show up in the wash program menu.

You will need to wire any solenoids for chemical/air from output 24. You will gain a "fill delay timer" that will give you the fill that you want. By selecting triple foam as a wash pass, it will change the movement of the carriage, but will still energize output 24 for chemicals. That means, you will lose the ability to use foam polish, and will need to disconnect the dan foss valve for foam polish on the LP manifold.

As far as purging the lines after application, I would not recommend antifreeze, as you will spray this into the bay, and could end up on the vehicle. If using air, you could use a delay on make relay that is energized by output 24, and waits to make until the end of the pass. Another option would be to have it blow down after the bay is clear after the wash is complete.

Thanks Scout! I checked my systems today and I'm running version 18f. Does that mean my software is capable of TF now but it simply isn't activated? (Off the subject...does Laserminder operate the same way? Just a system option? I don't have it currently.) I spoke with someone today and they told me the most up to date software version is 19b. What exactly the differences are between what I have and 19b are I don't know but if I don't need to pay for it to get the TF programming I'm good.

Forgive me but I don't have many of the outputs memorized yet, is 24 the foaming polish output? I didn't realize I would lose that function. Currently I use that for my Rain-X output. My top wash goes HP , Rain-X (foaming polish output), Watersaver Clearcoat, SF. To keep the wash time to a minimum on this new package I was HOPING to do this: HP, Hot Wax (TF output), Watersaver Rain-x instead of Clearcoat, SF. I'm sure there is a way of doing it, possible with a smart relay. If I can package it like I want to, then it would only add roughly 30 seconds to my top wash for an extra $4-5. Worth some tinkering.

 

[whitescout]

To change the systems options number you would need to contact PDQ as your version is encrypted to keep you from changing it yourself. I do not know about the laserminder option. There are higher versions of software, that allow both triple foam and polish, but they require input and output cards.$$$$$$$$$

As far as your rain-x, you could add a relay in line with output 35, ( HP pump ), and and put it on the NC, and have the coil activated by the drying agent output, and put the rain-x on the drying agent injector. This will cause the HP not to come on when drying agent comes on.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

To change the systems options number you would need to contact PDQ as your version is encrypted to keep you from changing it yourself. I do not know about the laserminder option. There are higher versions of software, that allow both triple foam and polish, but they require input and output cards.$$$$$$$$$

As far as your rain-x, you could add a relay in line with output 35, ( HP pump ), and and put it on the NC, and have the coil activated by the drying agent output, and put the rain-x on the drying agent injector. This will cause the HP not to come on when drying agent comes on.

So they allow for two functions to be injected into HP, Drying agent and Clearcoat but only one LP function not including the two presoaks. Got it. That might be doable. So if I added the relay you suggest, then by selecting Drying Agent (Rain-x) the HP Pump wouldn't run and essentially they're getting a LP Pass. I know on a 'real' low psi pass the booster shuts off at mid limit flag and air stays on. What would happen with this set up?

I just realized that if I set up the packages the way I was planning to, my new Hot Wax package would actually be faster than my top package now. The TF pass should be faster than a trip around the car and I'm thinking of substituting Rain-X for the Clearcoat in the medium psi rinse pass. I see options!