Need Small Claims advice

[frankm]

We are very good at defending ourselves in small claims . We win many of our cases because we pay what we damage and we fight when we know we did not cause the damage .

We have a sign that states many things but in particular we are not responsible for cars over 7 years of age, previous damage etc. . Car goes though and damages right side mirror. clearly it was loose or previously damaged. No other broken mirrors that month or previous months . However , in a previous experience with the same judge on a broken mirror, judge states sign does not constitute an agreement between the carwash and the customer, no consent given , "bring me case law or legal examples to defend that". Well we lost that case , but I am not going to lose this one .

Has anyone had to defend their sign? Did you win or lose that case on your signage?

PS we want to fight it because we get many fraudulent damage claims and the sign has to mean something so its important we fight this one

 

[Earl Weiss]

My experience - Flip a coin. Have had judges say stupid stuff "I know how those car washes can throw the car off the track and throw it back on again" Van with 15 PSI in RF tire and 60 PSI in LF jumps track " You could have checked that before you washed it " etc. Best hop if they find you liable is shoot for depreciated value. Run a Kelly Blue Book search for value of vehicle now versus new. If it's worth 0% of new ask that you only are responsible for 30% of replacement cost.

 

[robert roman]

“….we want to fight it because we get many fraudulent damage claims and the sign has to mean something so its important we fight this one….”

It’s usually easier to swim with the current than against it.

So, why not focus on solving the problem of getting so many fraudulent claims instead of how best to win in court?

What is root cause of problem?

For example, do you inspect key areas (mirrors, trim, dents, key scratches, etc.) before vehicles enter wash bay? Do you have accident prevention and safety plan with procedures to address customer and employee injuries? Do you have carwash and vehicle incident report and procedures for addressing damage claims? Do you have operations manual to help substantiate you operate according to industry best practices?

If you don’t, then you have to rely on things you have no direct control over like customers, effectiveness of signs, fate, luck, etc.

After all, you may have scored some victories in court, but still “get many fraudulent damage claims.”

 

[Car_Wash_Guy]

OP - Do you have a camera system @ the entry? I've stopped a few claims dead in their tracks with mine.

 

[Randy]

“….we want to fight it because we get many fraudulent damage claims and the sign has to mean something so its important we fight this one….”

It’s usually easier to swim with the current than against it.

So, why not focus on solving the problem of getting so many fraudulent claims instead of how best to win in court?

What is root cause of problem?

For example, do you inspect key areas (mirrors, trim, dents, key scratches, etc.) before vehicles enter wash bay? Do you have accident prevention and safety plan with procedures to address customer and employee injuries? Do you have carwash and vehicle incident report and procedures for addressing damage claims? Do you have operations manual to help substantiate you operate according to industry best practices?

If you don’t, then you have to rely on things you have no direct control over like customers, effectiveness of signs, fate, luck, etc.

After all, you may have scored some victories in court, but still “get many fraudulent damage claims.”

WOW! All of this from a guy who doesn't own a car wash.

 

[robert roman]

Would you like to point out something wrong with what I said or did you just have a bad movement this morning.

Most car washers I know make more money by washing cars than by going to court.

Or maybe you know something we don't.

 

[frankm]

The fraudulent claims come from people tying to get something for free . We have people stating damage , we show them the video that damage was there and they tell us " if you had good customer service you would pay for it " Real story . Sometime when we prove them wrong they smile, they know they got caught . We have been to court 5 times in 20 years , and won all but one because we successfully defend ourselves before it gets to court .

In the last case , we had a customer have a broken mirror . She claimed we did an additional 3000$ in damage to her $2000 vehicle. Despite video, she rolled the dice with the judge and we won all the additional claims , but the judge felt that the real damage of the broken mirror was not covered by the sign . so we lost $150 despite the fact that she tried to lie and get $3000. But we have another case and same thing , 20 year old car and they want $1000 on the mirror . It was more than likely loose which caused the damage . If I can provide case law to this particular judge , then we never have to worry about it again. This judge does not believe that any signage is acceptable. We want to change the opinion of the judge .

 

[mjwalsh]

frankm,

The first time I saw Judge Wapner on People's Court ... I was very interested in learning. That even included getting his book as soon it was released way back then. What I have gleaned from his courtroom & others who took his place ... is that expert witnesses carry a lot of weight. So in other words if other car wash operators or car wash experts somehow establish a "norm" how ever done ... it carries a it very well could be the tipping point. Also I have heard the words "what is the average customer's likely behavior& expectation" from the judges.

As far as the judge's sign - no contract goes ... we have clearance signs that are 6" off in favor of on the side of safeness. I would hope that specific plainly seen sign constitutes some sort of mutual binding agreement! I also add on the sign ... clearance is if door is all the ways up.

 

[Randy]

Would you like to point out something wrong with what I said or did you just have a bad movement this morning.

Most car washers I know make more money by washing cars than by going to court.

Or maybe you know something we don't.

Maybe you could share with us on the forum the locations of your car washes.

 

[pgrzes]

Maybe you could share with us on the forum the locations of your car washes.

That you currently or "EVER" owned???

 

[getnbusy]

Good input from most.

Thank you Robert for the useful post. You make a good point about being proactive. Not reactive. I don't know about others on here but I need to be reminded of that strategy from time to time.

You offer an opinion and that's why I use the AutocareForum, to hear other peoples opinion.

It doesn't matter to me if you own a carwash or not. I appreciate your contribution to the forum



I

 

[Earl Weiss]

This judge does not believe that any signage is acceptable. We want to change the opinion of the judge .

Good Luck with that = My advice = if you get assigned to that judge ask for an immediate change of judge. Typicaly you have a right to one change.

 

[Earl Weiss]

. However , in a previous experience with the same judge on a broken mirror, judge states sign does not constitute an agreement between the carwash and the customer, no consent given ,

Suggestions

Google "assumption Risk" See if any of that helps.
Bring your rabbit's foot and lucky penny.