New CC sales scenario

[mjwalsh]

Is there a reason that a changer can't accept credit cards? If you could vend tokens through the changer you would only have to have 1 cc reader. Am I missing something here?

Jimmy Buffett,

Great idea. It would mean that there is a future possiblity for ATMs that would allow a choice of coins, tokens &/or $5 bills. In our case, our almost a year & a half old ATM just gives out $5 dollar bills. No hesitation from people ... even though there could be a surcharge depending on their bank or credit union.

Having said that ... I think the bill changer companies all have what you decribe ... but in a dedicated version CC to token. My preference would strongly be in favor of a more inclusive through the wall ATM that would not be any more security risk than a Changer. This is based on actual experience of about a year & a half. If you would have asked me 5 years ago I would have said the idea was "unproven".

I am pretty sure the banks would be neutral on whether the hopper besides the bill canister gave out coins, bills &/or tokens! I did read about such machine successfully being used in Switzerland but don't ask me to give full details on that one.

mike king koin of bismarck

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

You're basically talking about a CC to token machine. I have three of them and they don't get anywhere near the use I thought they would. I think the extra step you have to go through takes out the convenience factor.

I must confess I only buy gas where they have "pay at the pump", even if I have to pay a little more, and my wife says I'm so tight that when I walk my a$$ makes a noise only dogs can hear!

 

[Waxman]

Is there a reason that a changer can't accept credit cards? If you could vend tokens through the changer you would only have to have 1 cc reader. Am I missing something here?

You can't add CC acceptance to my Hamilton Token vendor; I asked at the Kleenrite show and a new one is far more than Crypto Pay for my rinky dink 2 SS bays.

 

[MEP001]

You can't add CC acceptance to my Hamilton Token vendor

You certainly could with a little ingenuity, but as mentioned earlier the whole convenience of taking credit cards in the bays means that customers can just swipe their card and wash, whereas with a CC-to-token vendor they'd first need to know it's there, take the steps to it, then ponder what they'll do with the unused tokens.

 

[mjwalsh]

I must confess I only buy gas where they have "pay at the pump", even if I have to pay a little more, and my wife says I'm so tight that when I walk my a$$ makes a noise only dogs can hear!

Jimmy & others,

By encouraging them to make a few extra steps the customer might be more likely to be in better proximity of vend items you need to turnover because of it. Besides, the slight few yards extra walking can be a healthy thing for your customer ... from my observations. Remember we are talking self service here where the customer is already scurrying about anyway.

The exception would be inside our dog wash where the same customer touchscreen interface allows the customer to reach down within a yard away to retrieve one of the 4 vend items. That makes it better if a child &/or a dog needs to not be left alone.

With larger value coin or token acceptance it seems like there are fewer variables to go wrong than with the in bay CC logistic ... especially if you do not feel pressure from your competition to provide what they have credit card wise. It seems like other amenities could make up the difference in loss of a few customers because of lack of in bay credit card acceptance.

In our case with a laundromat, to provide 65+ CC acceptors total for each piece of equipment ... it especially makes even less sense. There could be some exceptions around the country ... but then they would tend to be the exception not the norm.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[bigleo48]

Mike,

I think we need to understand that what we are selling is convenience. Having to make the customer take extra steps or denying them an easy wash experience with the whole 'get change and buy more tokens than they need' goes against that IMHO.

With my setup as with most, you swipe, wash and press stop. Very easy and super convenient. No 1 min "running out of time so you better hurry up" buzzer. No big timer reminding them they are under the gun to get it done. It's just more relaxing.

That makes it better if a child &/or a dog needs to not be left alone.

A bit of a contradiction here...how is this different than leaving a kid or dog unattended in a SS bay for a trip to the change machine?

Finally, our credit card system allows us to sell gift and fleet cards and track usage real time along with regular reports. Makes it easy to track everything.

 

[Waxman]

Expecting the customer to do extra things in order to properly or successfully use your business is a big mistake.

I tried that as 'tokens only' for a few years. Man, if I could have that lost quarter revenue it wouldn't be a small number (to me).

Sell the customer a great wash that is easy to pay for and that is a winning combo.

Making the customer take more steps because it will keep them in shape has gotta be one of the silliest, most lopsided arguments I have ever heard here. Sorry but true.

 

[mjwalsh]

i dont feel the enthusiasm. Our cc per cash is kinda even out. Although our debit sales increase dramatically and even if it does surpass i wont feed those crooked cc processor a penny. Kinda wonder how to startup one , i would like to change the ethics in doing business in this environment.

BTW what kind of rates everyone paying?? True rate = total fees/deposit totals

Txheat,

Thanks for reminding our friends about net income vs the gross. A slight gain in convenience without considering tradeoffs such as more hardware etc to maintain & other overlooked subtleties.

You raise a very good point about the ethics factor. We should be concerned about losing any market levers to help keep those people more honest. Approaches other than encouraging the cash option ... for keeping the CC rates & contractual guidelines etc within the proper range could be less than ideal.

Also, from my humble perspective, there should be caution towards going in the direction of being too much credit based & cashless for even the smallest transactions. I notice my fellow self service operators who are cynical about the ATM approach do not have the positive experience that we have. For example, the ATM is satisfying the short on cash customers & more responsibly actually reminds the customer of their present bank account balance. The printout adverts our business too.

If you think about it ... the below article is relevant to an even greater concern:

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Germany+Credit+wanted+cash+only+culture/7009135/story.html

Nobody is arguing the possible very slight gain in convenience. Just because I acknowledge there is also gains (in some lax law enforcement areas) with CC for preventing non white collar theft does not mean I am contradicting myself. Dang .... I thought that area with the local & state gross receipts tax would have lotsa money for proper law enforcement.

mike walsh king koin

 

[mjwalsh]

Mike,
No 1 min "running out of time so you better hurry up" buzzer. No big timer reminding them they are under the gun to get it done. It's just more relaxing.
QUOTE]

My friend Big Leo,

For the record, my dog wash does not have the customer running to a coin box based on your loud buzzer. It has clear large bright numerals counting down during the grace period from 60 seconds to zero. That gives them plenty of time to grab a dollar coin out of their pocket with one hand to plop into a 100+% reliable coin acceptor! Also my 100% safe adjustable height tub trumps your sometimes on the fritz credit card swipe.

My friend Waxman,

I still think it is not all bad to encourage people to not be so sedentary & sell more ShureVend concession items in the process.

mike

 

[MEP001]

For the record, my dog wash does not have the customer running to a coin box based on your loud buzzer. It has clear large bright numerals counting down during the grace period from 60 seconds to zero.

It's the same thing, one with an audible alert and one with a visual. You're arguing semantics.

Also my 100% safe adjustable height tub trumps your sometimes on the fritz credit card swipe.

wtf?

 

[bigleo48]

Also my 100% safe adjustable height tub trumps your sometimes on the fritz credit card swipe

I'll start by showing the contradiction; "A slight gain in convenience without considering tradeoffs such as more hardware etc to maintain & other overlooked subtleties." I looked into the adjustable tubs...I felt it created a solution for a non-existent problem.

So far my CC availability in my Petwash has been 100%. However, having been a tech for 35 years I clearly understand that even properly maintained equipment can fail.

"That gives them plenty of time to grab a dollar coin out of their pocket with one hand to plop into a 100+% reliable coin acceptor!"

What coin mech do you use that is 100%+ reliable (ie, doesn't jambs, fail or mis-read coins)? What if the customer needs another 30 secs and doesn't have change in their pocket? In my experience, few run to the change machine...they just leave unfinished and not typically overjoyed.

BTW, I have had an ATM on site long before I had CC acceptance in the SS bays/PW. I still have customers who go to the ATM, then change machine, then bays. That's OK too.

With regards to CC fees, honesty, etc. Fees,you vote with you feet. If there is collusion with the CC processors/clearance houses, then that's a federal matter, not something we as individuals can do much about. I respect TXheat opinion and I can see where he's coming from...however I disagree. Not selling so you don't feed the pockets of the CC companies doesn't make sense to me.

Finally, when I deposit $...especially coin, there is a small fee from the banks for handling it. CC handling fee are higher, but requires no effort on my part. To me, the less change I handle, the better. When you look at the posts here, you find a lot of issues around security, dealing with cash, etc. I'd love to have an electronic payment only wash. Far fewer headaches. It may come to that one day.

Big

 

[mjwalsh]

It's the same thing, one with an audible alert and one with a visual. You're arguing semantics.


wtf?

My friend Mep001,

Sorry, I was not thorough enough in my description. There is a difference between a "Tailor Made Grace Period" & what you & Big Leo describe. When the customer has the 60 seconds available to put in a golden dollar coin, he or she can have the time clock stopped at that point without having to add a minimum. The same thing happens when she or he gets one of 4 doggie vend items(within their reach BTW). This is possible through our almost 3 years now proven PLC connected ethernet touchscreen.

Even though you obviously do not appreciate the ability for the customer to adjust the height within seconds ... does not mean every person using it doesn't appreciate it as we have experienced for almost 3 years now!!!

With regards to CC fees, honesty, etc. Fees,you vote with you feet. If there is collusion with the CC processors/clearance houses, then that's a federal matter, not something we as individuals can do much about.
Big

My friend Big Leo,

Good luck to TXHEAT & everyone in the USA with some of your suggested remedies once the electronic payments are totally dominant even for the smallest of transactions ... & it is no longer an option to vote for cash by feet or however. By dominant ... after the cash alternatives are accidently on purpose made impractical.

mike walsh king koin of the USA

 

[MEP001]

Even though you obviously do not appreciate the ability for the customer to adjust the height within seconds ... does not mean every person using it doesn't appreciate it as we have experienced for almost 3 years now!!!

I never said anything about not appreciating it, in fact I like the idea. My "wtf" was your comment of that being better than a credit card swipe that for no valid reason you claimed to be unreliable. Now you're putting words in my mouth and at the same time going COMPLETELY off-topic.

 

[bigleo48]

My friend Big Leo,

Good luck to TXHEAT & everyone in the USA with some of your suggested remedies once the electronic payments are totally dominant even for the smallest of transactions ... & it is no longer an option to vote for cash by feet or however. By dominant ... after the cash alternatives are accidently on purpose made impractical.

mike walsh king koin of the USA

Mike,

By voting with my feet, I was referring to changing CC clearing providers if you feel your rates are not favorable. I did so a couple of years ago.

Cash is not going away any time soon, but electronic payment has many benefits to both the user and merchant. One way or another, your gonna pay some banks and keeping those fees low are important. But when I consider the cost of handling cash, I take into account the collecting, sorting, rolling and the time going to and from to the bank, bank fees, the parts and maintenance to change machines, coins mechs, bill acceptors, hoppers, vac-it-up, along with additional security measures and equipment. All considered, I find my CC clearing fees to be reasonable for Visa & MC...Amex is another matter, but thankfully I get few users.

With regards to your pet tubs, I do like that feature as a potential user, however I have found over seven years very few situations that causes a customer to turn away due to the inability to load the dog into the tub. What I don't like about that tub config is the inability to walk around the tub. Dogs generally don't like to be washed and shy away from the whole process. So the need to constantly move the dog to get it washed on every side can be difficult. IMHO, it is also more difficult for two people to use a one sided tub. So I would not build my pet wash as you did, but then again it's not my pet wash. I think that you've tried some different ways of doing it and I commend you for it. The world needs people like you to look at things different and try other ways.

Big

 

[mjwalsh]

Mike,

By voting with my feet, I was referring to changing CC clearing providers if you feel your rates are not favorable. I did so a couple of years ago.

I think that you've tried some different ways of doing it and I commend you for it. The world needs people like you to look at things different and try other ways.

Big

My friend Big Leo,

Thanks for the support ... I do appreciate it. You also made some very good points along with TXHEAT in terms of the market (voting by feet) is no longer functional if our Constitutions are not followed properly law enforcement wise. The greater point that I was trying to articulate that there could be a potential danger of a coalition of cashless groups making cash no longer practical. I interpreted your "Federal" statement as showing that greater picture!

I don't see it as totally different than the NRA's stand of "when the criminals are the only ones with guns"... then we will be in even greater danger. In our constitution we have the "right to bear arms".

mike walsh bismarck, nd USA

 

[bigleo48]

My friend Big Leo,

The greater point that I was trying to articulate that there could be a potential danger of a coalition of cashless groups making cash no longer practical. I interpreted your "Federal" statement as showing that greater picture!

Mike,

I did get that, but when that becomes the case, there are much much bigger issues at play and it becomes international. Case in point, I'm in Canada, but the company I use to clear my credit cards is in the US. With communication systems today...it can be anywhere.

Big

 

[cleaning up mud]

Our IBA cc sales are 65-70% over cash. I hate to pay the fees, but its how folks pay.