New Contactor for vac motor

[Bubbles Galore]

Hi guys!

It's been so long since I've been here! Launching a new business can really take over your life. Anyway, onto the important stuff.

I finally got around to ordering a new faceplate for my vacuum from Jim over at Etowah Valley. It will have all the bells and whistles and will also feature a rotary switch (for the cc count up method) that will give me the option to have a turbo vac.

It shouldn't be too hard to retrofit in this new motor, but I was wondering if someone point me in the right direction to get a contactor for this motor. I will post some step by step pictures of the retrofit once I get it done.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I use this one on my basic vacs.

http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-49-mercury-relays-120v.aspx

but this one may be a little easier to wire up since you will be using a rotary switch.

http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-50-mercury-relays-24v.aspx

 

[MEP001]

Ditto on the mercury relays. Our Doyle units has 30A "ice cube" relays, and they were failing frequently, usually sticking on, and I replaced them all with the 24V one I.B. listed. The IDX timer output switches them directly.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks Guys!

I'm hoping to see a pretty good response from this. I will keep you guys updated. I should have the faceplate by the end of next week!

btw...can anyone recommend a good multi-coin short drop acceptor?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I dug a little deeper into what I need to do and I have a question. I am on a 20 amp breaker. I am not going to pull new wire. For the turbo motor, I was going to install a delay on make timer of 1.5 seconds (in case the rotary switch was left on turbo)to make sure that I had bypassed my peak amperage draw and wouldn't blow the circut. Does this make sense?

If that does make sense, then do I still need the mercury relay? Shouldn't I just need a separate contactor that will start up the motor, once the signal is sent from the rotary switch?

Thanks!

 

[MEP001]

You'll still need a separate relay for the turbo. The mercury relays are cheap, simple and reliable. IDX makes a very inexpensive delay relay for 24V, I believe they have a 1-sec. and 2 sec. model, which you could put inline on the turbo relay. A delay relay that could handle the load of a 3rd motor would be more expensive and would likely be less reliable than a mercury relay.

If the wire is heavy enough, you can just replace the 20A breaker with a 30. You'll probably find that you'll need to since two vac motors will pull a constant 16A when running, and a turbo motor will pull around 40A on startup.

Slugbuster has a short-drop model - you'll probably want to use the SB III since the II will accept a dollar coin and give only the value of a quarter. I use IDX MA-800's which should fit in a standard short-drop frame. We have 26 in service with no problems at all in nearly six years.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

In looking at the vac island I'm doing the additions to. I realized that I have an extra 110 line that I can use since there is no longer a shampooer there. If I can run that 110 line up into the vac, then I could just wire that motor in separately, correct?

I thought that the typical lamb motor was 7-8 at peak draw and 5 while running. I'm not sure where I heard that.

Where can I get a short drop frame to use with the MA-800? I need to get a new acceptor wired up in my magic mist!

Thanks for the help!

 

[pitzerwm]

You could just use the spare line in parallel, you should be fine with the amps. Hook it up and measure it.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I think you should call Jim at Etowah. I was speaking with him some time back about 3 motor vacs and #12 wire. He told me that he had developed or was in the process of developing a device to address this. Essentially, it would start up two motors and after one second shut them off (or maybe just one of them) for one second while the 3rd one starts and then refire the originals while they were coasting. Knowing Jim, he has got this thing where any dummy could install it and it sure sounds pretty simple.

 

[Kevin James]

I don?t understand what you?re trying to accomplish? You?ve got a vacuum and you want to add a third motor to it, Why? If you add a third motor and a switch to start the third motor are you going to charge more for the time that the third motor runs? All of our vacuums are 3 motor vacuums and they are on a 30 amp breaker, they are all wired with #10 wire. Why don?t you do it right add a 30 amp breaker and rewire that circuit with #10 wire from the breaker panel to the vacuum island. Being in property management you can?t believe the haywire electrical work we?ve seen, most of it is down right dangerous. If you can?t do it right the then call someone who can. You wouldn?t believe the mess this car wash in when we took it over, it was a electrical nightmare.

 

[MEP001]

I thought that the typical lamb motor was 7-8 at peak draw and 5 while running.

I've measured it myself. One typical vac motor pulls 8A while running with full airflow, 5 with none. Two motors will pull around 60A on startup. If you plan to use the same motor as Fragramatics for the turbo, those pull 40A on startup, 10A full airflow, 8A with none.

If you add a third motor and a switch to start the third motor are you going to charge more for the time that the third motor runs?

That's the usual idea.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

With EV's timer that I am going to use, their will be a rotary switch that will allow the customer to switch from 'regular' vac to a 'turbo' vac and the timer will automatically adjust the time accordingly.

If I am understanding how the system needs to be set up correctly, the 'turbo' motor needs to be wired up separately. Regardless, if new wire is the best option, then that is what I will do. If I don't have to go to that hassle and I can use the current electrical that I have at the island, then that is good enough for me.

 

[Kevin James]

How much are you going to charge for this Turbo Vac? How much did this super duper timer set up cost? What do you estimate the pay back will be?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

The regular vac will be $1/4 min. and the turob will most likely be $1/3 min. maybe a little less time. From the cost analysis I've done (yes I actually did one) the payback will be less than six months. I will be able to accept cash, coin, and credit at this vac and it will also be in line with my credit card bay, so I am looking at increases in that bay also.

I'm not sure if you're insinuating something, but beyond the scope of running a good quality car wash (which I do), my customers come back because I run the car wash that thinks outside the box a little bit and they enjoy that. There aren't any 'switchable' turbo vacs anywhere around and credit cards directly in the self serve bays or at the vacs are unheard of in my area. By doing this upgrade, I am distinguishing my wash from the rest of the pack even further than I already have.

 

[Quinque]

My three motor vacuums perform poorly if one motor becomes defective, due to the air leak through the defective motor.
Either operate with two motors or three motors.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Do you have your motor sitting on a gasket? Probably a stupid question, but one that merits asking.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I was under the assumption that you would have a check valve under that 3rd motor, if not you had better back up and regroup.

IMO, the switching from 2 to 3 motors is just a silly gimmick. I don't see any benefit over just having 3 motor vacs. I have about 30 three motor vacs. No one has ever started a sentence with "If your vacs just had less suction". Does anyone ever use the lower wattage on 3-way light bulbs? If I was a betting man I would bet that 99% of the 2 motor time sold is just because the customer doesn't read the directions for switching. Also you've complicated something as simple as a vac that didn't need be.

 

[Quinque]

Do you have your motor sitting on a gasket? Probably a stupid question, but one that merits asking.

I have gaskets.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

After speaking with Jim at Etowah Valley, I think I will just have the stop button added to end the credit card transactions. The faceplate is reasonably priced, but the new motor setup was starting to get a little too pricey once I started looking at exactly what I could buy a completely new vac for.

 

[MEP001]

My three motor vacuums perform poorly if one motor becomes defective, due to the air leak through the defective motor.
Either operate with two motors or three motors.

"Turbo" vacs have a check valve under the third motor to prevent air being pulled through the one that isn't running in regular mode.