kostasgree
New member
I intend to buy a car was system. Ι dont know which is rhe ideal choice. ns lammscloth or Hanna car wash system?
NS vs Hanna CAR WASH SYSTEM
- Thread starter kostasgree
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robert roman
Bob Roman
I am unaware of the market situation in Greece, but unless you are prepared to install, service and repair your own equipment, the choice usually boils down to the brands of equipment that the distributors carry who are within a reasonable distance from your site. For example, several of my clients have been unable to buy the equipment they really wanted because the OEM was unable to provide a distributor to service the account.
As for who is better, each OEM has advantages and disadvantages. For example, through the acquistion by Coleman, Hanna is now thought to have a more extensive network of distributors. On the other hand, N/S has slower moving brushes and lammscloth wash material which can provide operators with an innovative advantage by promoting the "autohandwash" concept.
In my opinion, they both make good equipment.
Hope this helps.
Bob Roman
www.carwashplan.com
As for who is better, each OEM has advantages and disadvantages. For example, through the acquistion by Coleman, Hanna is now thought to have a more extensive network of distributors. On the other hand, N/S has slower moving brushes and lammscloth wash material which can provide operators with an innovative advantage by promoting the "autohandwash" concept.
In my opinion, they both make good equipment.
Hope this helps.
Bob Roman
www.carwashplan.com
We've been using Lammscloth for 11 years now. We put the vehicle through our touchless system first (all reclaim water) and only then through our Lammscloth. This is the proper way to do a hybrid system and its a one-two punch that simply cannot be beaten.
In fact an interesting thing that we discovered less than a year after we initially installed the Lammscloth was that the mitter curtains do not even need to move. Simply the weight of the material when wet is all the friction needed on the top of the vehicle. Lets face it, even on mitters that move, once the material gets bunched up on the hood, roof and trunk, the action of cloth is dramatically reduced.
Bob Roman is right, lammscloth is much gentler than regular cloth and gives you a distinct marketing advantage over bristle or "soft cloth" competitors in your market area.
regardless of which way you go though, do no - I repeat do not put any cloth before your pre-soak and high pressure equipment. This business about the cloth massaging the soap in and then having the high pressure rinse it off is ass backwards and will force you to do what nearly every cloth operator does - namely use labor to pre-wash the entire vehicle before they send them through. By having the touchless part of the hybrid system first, you automatically remove all the heaviest dirt first and send an 80-90% clean vehicle into then cloth. This enables the cloth to do what it does best, polish the vehicle and remove any remaining road film that the touchless leaves behind.
As far as distributors go, most are like a guy on Times Square in New York who come up to you and wants to sell you a watch and pulls up their sleeves to reveal 20 different brands. Good car wash process and equipment are not rocket science and can be serviced by most distributors. I can almost guarantee you that if you tell a local distributor that you want a brand of equipment he doesn't sell, he'll find a way of selling it to you and servicing it.
In fact an interesting thing that we discovered less than a year after we initially installed the Lammscloth was that the mitter curtains do not even need to move. Simply the weight of the material when wet is all the friction needed on the top of the vehicle. Lets face it, even on mitters that move, once the material gets bunched up on the hood, roof and trunk, the action of cloth is dramatically reduced.
Bob Roman is right, lammscloth is much gentler than regular cloth and gives you a distinct marketing advantage over bristle or "soft cloth" competitors in your market area.
regardless of which way you go though, do no - I repeat do not put any cloth before your pre-soak and high pressure equipment. This business about the cloth massaging the soap in and then having the high pressure rinse it off is ass backwards and will force you to do what nearly every cloth operator does - namely use labor to pre-wash the entire vehicle before they send them through. By having the touchless part of the hybrid system first, you automatically remove all the heaviest dirt first and send an 80-90% clean vehicle into then cloth. This enables the cloth to do what it does best, polish the vehicle and remove any remaining road film that the touchless leaves behind.
As far as distributors go, most are like a guy on Times Square in New York who come up to you and wants to sell you a watch and pulls up their sleeves to reveal 20 different brands. Good car wash process and equipment are not rocket science and can be serviced by most distributors. I can almost guarantee you that if you tell a local distributor that you want a brand of equipment he doesn't sell, he'll find a way of selling it to you and servicing it.
Joe Gillis
New member
I've been to Chief's and I have to admit that the quality of the clean is superior with the Lammswool. I'll bet that neither MFR has a distributor in Greece. Good luck.
I was under the impression that you could put Lammscloth on any equipment - was I wrong? I realize there is probably a specific core and of course, a slower rpm adjustment. However, if that is the case, Kostasgree could get the equipment from whatever manufacturer he chooses.
I agree 100% with Bill. I don't know why, but most people don't seem to understand the concept, which seems to be common sense. Just watch your average person use self serve wash - most of them know enough to hp soap before using the foam brush. In an automated hybrid tunnel, you have the option of equipment or people to do this job. The only logical choice is to utilize your equipment to its fullest extent by placing the hp components first. Why have employees doing this when you have equipment that, when placed in the proper sequence, can do it?
I agree 100% with Bill. I don't know why, but most people don't seem to understand the concept, which seems to be common sense. Just watch your average person use self serve wash - most of them know enough to hp soap before using the foam brush. In an automated hybrid tunnel, you have the option of equipment or people to do this job. The only logical choice is to utilize your equipment to its fullest extent by placing the hp components first. Why have employees doing this when you have equipment that, when placed in the proper sequence, can do it?
Out of curiosity, I just checked and Hanna does have a distributor in Greece:
http://www.hannacarwash.com/distributors
http://www.hannacarwash.com/distributors
N/S will not let you put Lammscloth on anyone else's new equipment other than theirs, unless it 2-3 years old unless. It is an extremely myopic policy in my view as many could benefit from the material as a way of reducing the impact of their cloth, giving their wash a different look, a marketing advantage over their competitors and most importantly a cleaner vehicle.
BTW - when you use Lammscloth, the mitters do not even need to move due to the weight of the material when wet. However we also do not wash open bed pick-ups with it under any circumstances. Pick-ups must have covers on them to prevent possible contamination by contact with whatever is in the bed (even if it can be seen) especially oily substances. The weight of the cloth also could cause open bed pickups to jump rollers. Still after 11 years, (too borrow an old Lucky Strike slogan) I'd rather fight than switch to any other material.
One other word of caution, the sides and wraps should be hydraulic. They wil try to talk you into electric motors. However, hydraulic gives you much more control over the RPM which if it is too high can cause significant damage - again due to its weight.
BTW - when you use Lammscloth, the mitters do not even need to move due to the weight of the material when wet. However we also do not wash open bed pick-ups with it under any circumstances. Pick-ups must have covers on them to prevent possible contamination by contact with whatever is in the bed (even if it can be seen) especially oily substances. The weight of the cloth also could cause open bed pickups to jump rollers. Still after 11 years, (too borrow an old Lucky Strike slogan) I'd rather fight than switch to any other material.
One other word of caution, the sides and wraps should be hydraulic. They wil try to talk you into electric motors. However, hydraulic gives you much more control over the RPM which if it is too high can cause significant damage - again due to its weight.
kostasgree
New member
thank u v. much all of u
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petitemoose
Member
Out of curiosity, is there a reason you aren't considering Ceccato Equipment? They are on your side of the pond being based in Italy. They have tunnel equipment already spec'd to european voltages and procedures.
kostasgree
New member
what about belanger tunnel?
what about belanger tunnel?
what about belanger tunnel?
Hello Kostas
Selecting the right equipment is one part only in setting up a carwash business. There are numerous additional factors that you have to take into account from selecting the right property, Greek legislation regarding the carwash business, zoning, addional equipment, water quality, water recycling solutions if needed etc...
Euromatic - G. Tabakoulakis & Co - apart for providing you with the right Hanna Equipment - can guide and support you through this process, and support you of course during your operation.
Our contact details are on the Hanna Web Site, please feel free to contact us to discuss any of your requirements.
Yannis Kokarakis
G. Tabakoulakis & Co.
Selecting the right equipment is one part only in setting up a carwash business. There are numerous additional factors that you have to take into account from selecting the right property, Greek legislation regarding the carwash business, zoning, addional equipment, water quality, water recycling solutions if needed etc...
Euromatic - G. Tabakoulakis & Co - apart for providing you with the right Hanna Equipment - can guide and support you through this process, and support you of course during your operation.
Our contact details are on the Hanna Web Site, please feel free to contact us to discuss any of your requirements.
Yannis Kokarakis
G. Tabakoulakis & Co.
addicted2cleancars
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This business about the cloth massaging the soap in and then having the high pressure rinse it off is ass backwards and will force you to do what nearly every cloth operator does - namely use labor to pre-wash the entire vehicle before they send them through.
I know of plenty of washes that do not prep at all and has cloth only wash with the only high pressure being used for wheel and rocker panels. The end result is their cars are clean, real clean. If you are prepping at all, then you are wasting money.
I know of plenty of washes that do not prep at all and has cloth only wash with the only high pressure being used for wheel and rocker panels. The end result is their cars are clean, real clean. If you are prepping at all, then you are wasting money.
smokun
Consultant - Rainmaker
Perfect Match
Here's a recommendation that will give you an instant competitive edge, regardless of which tunnel equipment you choose.
Investigate SAFETVEYR.
It's compatible with all equipment manufacturers... and it will move you ahead of the crowd and distinguish your carwash in any marketplace.
I wrote a comparative article on flat-belt conveyors for Auto Laundry News earlier this year and flat-belt conveyors are the future, now! Regardless of who's equipment you choose, using a flat-belt conveyor will give you a huge.. HUGE competitive marketing advantage.
Either carwash equipment will do a fine job if you recognize and adhere to the proper chemical solutions, drying agents, and conveyor speed. But the choice of conveyor system is where you can set your operation apart... and above all the competition. Check it out. Done properly, you'll own the marketplace!
Here's a recommendation that will give you an instant competitive edge, regardless of which tunnel equipment you choose.
Investigate SAFETVEYR. It's compatible with all equipment manufacturers... and it will move you ahead of the crowd and distinguish your carwash in any marketplace.
I wrote a comparative article on flat-belt conveyors for Auto Laundry News earlier this year and flat-belt conveyors are the future, now! Regardless of who's equipment you choose, using a flat-belt conveyor will give you a huge.. HUGE competitive marketing advantage.
Either carwash equipment will do a fine job if you recognize and adhere to the proper chemical solutions, drying agents, and conveyor speed. But the choice of conveyor system is where you can set your operation apart... and above all the competition. Check it out. Done properly, you'll own the marketplace!
JMMUSTANG
car wash owner
There's one problem about them that I can see, you can't shine the tires online since the tires don't rotate.
smokun
Consultant - Rainmaker
Wheels & Tires?
I understand that several companies have tire dressing systems that do not require the tire to rotate. A few chemical companies are also involved. Instead of taking up a lot of floor space, they simply spray a hydrophobic tire dressing onto the tire, followed by a rinse for the wheel... and the air drying process. Apparently it's a space-saver concept that works with all conveyors, including flat-belts.
You'd have to contact SAFETVEYR to find out more.
I know that MacNeil has a wheel & tire washer working for flat-belt non-rotating wheels. Tom Petit of Petit Auto Wash also has a similar system in his touchless process.
As far as flat-belt conveyors, I genuinely think they will eventually replace the conventional chain and roller systems because they offer a sensible alternative to guide-rail damage to wheels, tires and rims. And there seems to be no need for a correlator either.
At times, progress comes quickly. Some of us still remember pull-chains and push bars. Hey, does anyone remember when carwashes had plastic bristles? Once the customers perceived them to be risky, it didn't take long for them to be replaced.
I understand that several companies have tire dressing systems that do not require the tire to rotate. A few chemical companies are also involved. Instead of taking up a lot of floor space, they simply spray a hydrophobic tire dressing onto the tire, followed by a rinse for the wheel... and the air drying process. Apparently it's a space-saver concept that works with all conveyors, including flat-belts.
You'd have to contact SAFETVEYR to find out more.
I know that MacNeil has a wheel & tire washer working for flat-belt non-rotating wheels. Tom Petit of Petit Auto Wash also has a similar system in his touchless process.
As far as flat-belt conveyors, I genuinely think they will eventually replace the conventional chain and roller systems because they offer a sensible alternative to guide-rail damage to wheels, tires and rims. And there seems to be no need for a correlator either.
At times, progress comes quickly. Some of us still remember pull-chains and push bars. Hey, does anyone remember when carwashes had plastic bristles? Once the customers perceived them to be risky, it didn't take long for them to be replaced.
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JMMUSTANG
car wash owner
Steve if the equipment co's. can come up with a viable solution to an online tire dressing applicator and the price comes down on the flat conveyor I agree with you.
It's nice to see some new innovation in our industry.
It's nice to see some new innovation in our industry.
Earl Weiss
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>>>At times, progress comes quickly. Some of us still remember pull-chains and push bars. Hey, does anyone remember when carwashes had plastic bristles? Once the customers perceived them to be risky, it didn't take long for them to be replaced.<<<
Has filament been replaced? Hmmmm have you seen Sonny's "NEW" lower detail brushes that mount on their poodle brush. They have filament.
Oh, and BTW at one location went back to filament after going to cloth 30+ years ago, and have been changing the bottom of some wheels to filament for better wheel cleaning.
If any customer asks I just show them that the stuff is softer than their toothbrush and explain that if their cars finish can't stand up to something that soft, it probably should not be on the street. Customers can be smarter than we think ... sometimes.
Has filament been replaced? Hmmmm have you seen Sonny's "NEW" lower detail brushes that mount on their poodle brush. They have filament.
Oh, and BTW at one location went back to filament after going to cloth 30+ years ago, and have been changing the bottom of some wheels to filament for better wheel cleaning.
If any customer asks I just show them that the stuff is softer than their toothbrush and explain that if their cars finish can't stand up to something that soft, it probably should not be on the street. Customers can be smarter than we think ... sometimes.
smokun
Consultant - Rainmaker
Truth Be Told...
Earl, et al...
Truth be told, the plastic pex washing material of years gone by never really scratched the finishes of cars, as was frequently claimed.
Instead, as a result of those operators who failed to provide the adequate lubricating detergents to make the friction material clean and track smoothly, the plastic material actually rubbed off onto the surface of the car. The rub transferred onto the paint... above the surface, and was easily removed by polish... or frequently by a cleaning detergent.
But, because the problem of some operators seeking to minimize their chemical costs by using too little chemical... or an inferior cheaper substitute, the results were that people actually felt the marks of plastic residue were paint scratches.
As you noted, when the plastic bristle tip actually flagged into micro-bristles, it was both ultra-soft and a great cleaning tool.
Although the Belangers actually brought cloth to our industry, I still vividly recall Sonny Fazio's sensational ads claiming that plastic bristles actually scratched cars. Seemingly in a few months, he as well as some less flamboyant others had customers convinced that going to a carwash that still used plastic bristles... was a high-risk event.
Consequently, the awesome power of consumer pull-through marketing changed the face of carwashing. Yes, the Belangers introduced cloth, but had not a few influential carwashers jumped on-board, its future might not have been so bright. Also, to Sonny's credit, it unmistakably motivated the sale of a heck of a lot of cloth replacement material throughout the industry. He, along with the Kirrikian brothers and a few others, were the prime movers of the cloth washing material revolution. We enjoy a very robust industry... along with many very colorful people.
Entrepreneurism personified. You really gotta love this country!!!
Earl, et al...
Truth be told, the plastic pex washing material of years gone by never really scratched the finishes of cars, as was frequently claimed.
Instead, as a result of those operators who failed to provide the adequate lubricating detergents to make the friction material clean and track smoothly, the plastic material actually rubbed off onto the surface of the car. The rub transferred onto the paint... above the surface, and was easily removed by polish... or frequently by a cleaning detergent.
But, because the problem of some operators seeking to minimize their chemical costs by using too little chemical... or an inferior cheaper substitute, the results were that people actually felt the marks of plastic residue were paint scratches.
As you noted, when the plastic bristle tip actually flagged into micro-bristles, it was both ultra-soft and a great cleaning tool.
Although the Belangers actually brought cloth to our industry, I still vividly recall Sonny Fazio's sensational ads claiming that plastic bristles actually scratched cars. Seemingly in a few months, he as well as some less flamboyant others had customers convinced that going to a carwash that still used plastic bristles... was a high-risk event.
Consequently, the awesome power of consumer pull-through marketing changed the face of carwashing. Yes, the Belangers introduced cloth, but had not a few influential carwashers jumped on-board, its future might not have been so bright. Also, to Sonny's credit, it unmistakably motivated the sale of a heck of a lot of cloth replacement material throughout the industry. He, along with the Kirrikian brothers and a few others, were the prime movers of the cloth washing material revolution.
We enjoy a very robust industry... along with many very colorful people.Entrepreneurism personified. You really gotta love this country!!!
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OK - so now I have to ask this:
With friction washes now being perceived as "safer" than in the past and chemicals improving, and people accepting friction as a quality method of washing, will we see filament systems come back?
We are now washing a whole generation of people's cars that never experienced filalment, thus never had the fear of it. If they are willing to wash with friction, will they know enough to fear the filiament? Can the industry re-introduce this material on a large scale? I don't mean a component here and there, I mean as an option for a full system.
With friction washes now being perceived as "safer" than in the past and chemicals improving, and people accepting friction as a quality method of washing, will we see filament systems come back?
We are now washing a whole generation of people's cars that never experienced filalment, thus never had the fear of it. If they are willing to wash with friction, will they know enough to fear the filiament? Can the industry re-introduce this material on a large scale? I don't mean a component here and there, I mean as an option for a full system.
