Off Board Chemical or Spot Free Arches

[DiamondWash]

As I'm watching my automatics I started to wonder if we added off-board arches to help with throughput. I see in a few YouTube videos this is catching on, this would only work if you have ample space to do it but it got me thinking, what do you think about it Yea or Nay?

 

[washnshine]

I would add post wash arches - rinse, clear coat, spot free, but not pre wash arches such as presoak or triform - I think they would cover up the windows and make it more difficult for some customers to position the car in the bay.

 

[DiamondWash]

Yeah that's what I meant sorry for not elaborating on the location for the arches.

 

[MGSMN]

You hope for quicker throughput in an IBA with separate wax or rinse arches and it can be achieved "IF" you have a long enough tunnel space so that the first arch is at least one car length distance from the IBA. If not, the customers tend to sit in the arch blocking the IBA anyway. Then some will complain the arch timed out before they got through it. If you don't have the space I would recommend just having the IBA do the wax and rinse passes and avoid the above. That has been my experience in the field.

 

[robert roman]

As I'm watching my automatics I started to wonder if we added off-board arches to help with throughput. I see in a few YouTube videos this is catching on, this would only work if you have ample space to do it but it got me thinking, what do you think about it Yea or Nay?

Most operators with on-board driers can get 3 or more cars an hour and increase average per car revenue by a $1.00 or more from changing service recipes and recalibrating machine. This is a lot less expensive than upgrading or retrofitting especially if you have dual in-bays.

There are several methods to get 20 cars an hour from in-bay and all of them are expensive.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

I hate to say but docking dryers for a IBA slow down cars per hour and I know a dozen or more local operators agree if you have the room most definitely have a free standing dryer on a timer with dryer shut off eyes. You can have a vehicle entering wash and getting presoak applied if you position the standing dryer 12-14ft on the backside. I know this from firsthand experience. 95% of all people do not creep through the dryers and drive off early therefore creating more throughput. You need a long bay or a awning overhang attached to building for this which is the ultimate setup which I have witnessed myself. You can never have a long enough bay.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

You need a long bay or a awning overhang attached to building

What would that be needed for?

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

Long bay would be so you could put 30ft rails and a standing dryer would be ultimate dream setup imo. Most of the time around here operators cover the dryers from rain and weather elements and looks but not a necessary must have item.

 

[robert roman]

“I hate to say but docking dryers for a IBA slow down cars per hour…..95% of all people do not creep through the dryers and drive off early therefore creating more throughput….”

Neither of these statements is true.

The type of dryer doesn’t decrease the service rate, adding a drying cycle does.

Driving off early can’t increase hourly capacity because it has no effect on machine time.

Where’s the math?

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

Robert all I know is this I guess I will have to explain it better docking dryer on a laser 4000/washworld (example) you will wash 110-130 cars a day on snow days depending on programming setup.
With a freestanding dryer on backside of building 13ft-15ft away so a vehicle can be washing in the bay while the other vehicle is drying bumps cars per day to 165-175 easy. Now you tell me as a IBA operator yourself which setup you would want at your site. Just telling the facts its all about how many cars per day you wash correct in the end. Most people don't have the room on the lot to accomplish this. Those numbers i have stated are real world number not made up by a salesman. I have witnessed it myself but I guess I am just a dumb ol blue collar carwash operator that don't know any better.

 

[soonermajic]

I think Robert didn't understand the question, therefore eliciting such an ignorant response. Simple Math, get more cars to leave quicker (because the dryer is off board--outside the exit) & bring more cars in faster. This is going to give you more cpd.
If the dryer is on board, the next customer has to wait til the current customer exits, since the dryer is on the bridge.

great advice Thomas. I hope to face this dilemma in a few weeks...

 

[robert roman]

Your argument isn’t valid because you are comparing an apple with an orange.

For example, in-bay (what is it – 4000 w/o docking dryer) with free standing dryer at 170 cars a day / 12 hours is 14 cars per hour or roughly 4 minutes per car.

Assume it takes one minute at pay station, three minutes for gantry, and one minute of drying time or service rate of five minutes or 12 cars an hour.

So, if someone drives off, how does this increase hourly throughput?

It doesn’t because the next customer still has to spend one minute at pay station and three minutes at gantry before getting car dried, one minute.

Bumping up the hourly capacity of 4000 with docking is another matter. 3 more cars an hour is achievable.

 

[soonermajic]

wth do you not understand.? The dryer is NOT attached to the gantry, therefore you can begin to exit the wash as it dries your car. This allows the next car to already pull through the undercarriage & pull in for Pre-Soak. That means cars pull in & exit FASTER!
If the dryer is attached to the bridge, you can NOT do those 2 aforementioned processes. That means a SLOWER process.

I have a saying for some of my students: You'd argue with a fence post

 

[robert roman]

No you don’t get it.

Set up single server queue.

POS assign one minute. Gantry passes are soap, wash, wax, and rinse and takes four minutes. Customer drives out of wash bay and has one minute to drive through a free standing dryer that’s positioned 15’ beyond end wall.

So, service rate is six minutes or 10 cars per hour and the most you can have in the system at one time is three cars.

If customer pulls away from dryer prematurely, how does this improve hourly capacity or increase number of cars in system?

It doesn’t. Only change is it doesn’t take as long for this particular customer because they chose not to use up all of their time drying the car.

The only way the next customer can save any time is to not dry their car.

I’ll argue this all day because you are wrong. If you want, I’ll give you some queuing models in excel to prove my point.

 

[PEI]

Hi Steve,

First if the bay is long enough to add the additional arches without interfering with the iba then it would probably fit some form of a tunnel wash system. This would give you the most hourly throughput. Assuming that a tunnel is prohibited by the cost then this would be a viable alternative. It is not fool proof since you would have to put the arches on timers to control chemical usage. Which means some cars may not make it all the way through an arch before it cuts off or may pull through too quickly. Either way you would see a loss in wash quality.

Personally, I would be a yeah in the right circumstances. I think it could help drying if you placed the spot free close enough to the dryer to create a flash dry effect. Just my 2 cents.

 

[pgrzes]

How this total AHOLE remains is beyond me. Thats all I am going to say, its not worth my breath!!!!!

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Most of the time around here operators cover the dryers from rain and weather elements and looks but not a necessary must have item.

Yeah, I don't understand why they want them inside and definitely don't understand why they would want them protected from rain if they're outside. Putting them inside the bay exposes them to rain and chemicals every single day and also exposes the car to drippage after they've been through it. I have only one stand-alone dryer, a Peco. It is outside, with the exception of the control box rusting off the wall inside. Everything outside looks as good as it did when we put it there 12 years ago. Not a single repair either.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

My personal dryers are outside PDQ Dryers & wish I had a overhang or protection on them bc when it rains and then gets supper cold that night the moisture freezes and sometimes causes my contactor not to pull in on the first car of the day from moisture even though its in a UL enclosed electrical box. I guess its all personal preffrence just like some people park there car outside and some people park there car under a carport or garage. I ain't trying to make anyone mad or upset. My fiberglass panels are starting to crack due to sun also. Peco makes really nice equipment.

 

[loewem]

For the original question it sounds like using arches would require customers to think and understand that they need to move foward at certain times. I think that this can be addressed with some education of the customer, but there will always be some that won’t move when they are prompted to. I have a lasewash 4000 with a docking dryer. Customers frequently drive through the dryers even though the stop sign is lit. This throws off the next wash. When the customer waits for the dryer to finish and the drive sign to light up it takes about 10 seconds for the wash to reset and be ready for the next car. I have a big sign at the bay entrance that reads, “Please wait for Green GO light to turn on before entering wash bay”. Customers still enter the bay before the GO light comes on. Drives me crazy.

For the second idea about setting the dryers outside of the bay I know this will work to increase the number of washes per hour/per day. If I set my docking dryer to stand alone (make the customer drive through the dryer) I can get one to two cars more through per hour. I stumbled on to this last year when I had a problem with my docking dryer after an ice storm. I did 131 washes in one day. With the docking dryer working my best day was 108. Part of that is that the customer doesn’t use the entire time set for the dryer and the next wash can get started sooner. If you could move the dryers further out from the wash bridge and dry the car while another is getting the undercarriage wash and setting up for presoak you could easily get to 150/160 washes per day. I think most pay stations allow the customer to pay while a car is being washed. Mine does, but sometimes the customer doesn’t realize that the can pay while an car is being washed. On busy days I am constantly making sure that customers have paid and are ready to start washing when the wash is ready.

 

[Greg Pack]

Do you have a gantry machine? If so, how about applying multiple options in one pass? Coleman can do that with their wing option. You can apply a low pressure water rinse, low pressure CCP or drying aid, and spot free rinse on the same pass with some arches mounted to the existing gantry.