Outdoor lighting controls

[OurTown]

One of our timers went bad the other day and now might be the time to upgrade. Currently we have five outdoor lighting circuits controlled by three mechanical clock timers. We seem to always be fiddling with the on/off times with the changes in daylight hours. At first I thought about putting all lights on photocells and getting rid of the timers but my electrician friend said they only last a few years. That's all we need at the car wash is more maintenance. Also they may activate the lights during rainy days raising our electric bill. He told me to look into an astronomic type timer that automatically changes the on/off times to a set program based on our geographic location. He then said to put the output to a bank of relays for the light circuits. I looked into the timers and picking it out seems easy. Selecting the relays seem to be the more difficult part of the equation. Our lighting circuits are 120 volt and four are 20 amp and one is 30 amp. How do you guys control outdoor lighting?

 

[APW]

I use double pole 120 volt coil contactors.

 

[OurTown]

He used the term contactor and not relay. When searching for contactors and not relays they are much more straightforward to find.

 

[APW]

You can get them at your local HVAC wholesaler or order them online.
https://www.amazon.com/Packard-C230B-Pole-Contactor-Voltage/dp/B001KGSJ74

 

[Randy]

At one wash we have 5 lights that are controlled by Photocells, they are well over 25 years old and they are still working fine. At one car wash we had an astronomic timer, it gave us the most problems that we installed a relay/contactor controlled by a Photocell, and this has only been installed 15 years or so. We have converted all the lighting over to LED lights, but still use the same control circuit.

 

[MEP001]

There are lighting grade contactors that are rated for constant power-up of the coil. They'll last longer and won't buzz like HVAC relays will.

I changed from photocell to an astronomic timer (Like you mentioned I had trouble with the lights not shutting off if it stayed overcast). It's been completely trouble-free, I just change the batteries on the first of every even-numbered year.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/3381/ELEC-ET8215CR.html

 

[seattleguy]

I hate the digital timers with the astro feature. Programming them is a nightmare. The city requires me to install them and then we switch out to the mechanical type.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

If you want an Astro timer you don’t need to spend $200+. You can buy one for a fraction of that at Home Depot..

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywe...or-Lights-and-Motors-RPLS730B1000-U/206311889

Simply use it to run the contractors or relays. If you decide to go with a photocell, use one per contactor and they’ll last much longer than wiring directly to the lighting circuit.
The timer has a built in manual switch which is nice to test your lights. When we use a photocell we wire in a toggle switch at the contactor so we can test the lights.

 

[Rudy]

Local utility had a $150 rebate for the $200 astronomic timer...so I got one. I love it. Wired it to a huge contactor and it's been trouble free. No more changing mechanical timers. All my lights are LED now...and they are set to come on 20 minutes before sunset.

BTW....The utility later reneged...so it cost $200 (made me mad)....still, worth every penny. I wouldn't have done it without the false advertising....

 

[wash4me]

Et8015c is what we’ve used. That being said you could use a photocell in conjunction with a much cheaper electronic water heater timer.

 

[sparkey]

I wrote a routine in my PLC that controls the lighting based on sunrise/sunset times. I turn half the lights off after 10pm. If I see a coin pulse anywhere at my wash or the security alarm is tripped I turn all the lights back on until they leave. I have a general PLC that runs everything at my wash as well keep track of all money in selfserve bays, automatic, and each vacuum. I also monitor for alarms such as air compressor running to long (blown line), low temperature in various locations, garage doors in wrong position in automatic bay, etc.

 

[wash4me]

i use the ezecontroller ezesys.com for some of these same functions. I have thought about using it for measuring soap draw on the automatic and level indication for the spot free system. Does the plc control all of these things or just monitor?

 

[OurTown]

I see what contactors APW is using but what about everyone else? The ones made for lighting and have at least five contacts looks like $400. Why are they so expensive compared to the "definite purpose type" made for HVAC? How much longer would they really last at 7 times the price?

 

[soapy]

I use intermatic timers for all my lights. I think in 25 years at 4 locations I have only had to replace 2 timers. It is very simple, leave the box mounted and the whole timer will pivot out of the box, then just take the new timer and pop it into the old box.

 

[MEP001]

I see what contactors APW is using but what about everyone else? The ones made for lighting and have at least five contacts looks like $400. Why are they so expensive compared to the "definite purpose type" made for HVAC? How much longer would they really last at 7 times the price?

You should be able to find 3-pole lighting contactors for around $50 to $75 apiece. They should last decades.

 

[MEP001]

If you want an Astro timer you don’t need to spend $200+. You can buy one for a fraction of that at Home Depot..

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywe...or-Lights-and-Motors-RPLS730B1000-U/206311889

Simply use it to run the contractors or relays. If you decide to go with a photocell, use one per contactor and they’ll last much longer than wiring directly to the lighting circuit.
The timer has a built in manual switch which is nice to test your lights. When we use a photocell we wire in a toggle switch at the contactor so we can test the lights.

The reason the Intermatic timer is so expensive is because it has two very hearty contact poles that can be switched individually or locked together for 240V.

The timer you linked isn't an astronomic timer that's pre-programmed for the sunrise/sunset times, but they do have one that is:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Interma...-Digital-In-Wall-Timer-White-IW600K/205478791

 

[OurTown]

Here is the timer I was thinking of getting.

https://www.zoro.com/tork-electronic-timer-astro-7-days-spst-ewz101/i/G1034345/

I still don't see the lighting contactors for reasonable money that are made by decent brands like Square D, Eaton, Siemens etc.

 

[APW]

I've had the same contactors at one location for almost 5 years and they do not buzz. And if it did start buzzing, change it for less then 10 bucks.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I just jumped on to Home Depot’s site real quick and grabbed that link..sorry. I know the one I bought was and was under $30. I realize the Intermatic has heavy duty contacts but that’s why I said to use a contactor or relay with it.

 

[pgrzes]

For my self serve bays I have a regular Intermatic timer turns on 1 light over selector doors in each bay. Then I have an Omron plc that I tied each bay timer into. When Timer is running 3 more lights in the bay come on. I set a delay for light to stay on for 10 minutes after timer goes off for courtesy time. I wish I knew more about writing programming for the plc's as I see so much that we could use them for. I have a contact that I work with to get them working. I did a similar thing in my automatic bay, and I also use the same type plc and customized my vac it up system. For parking lot lights I just pay Peco(my electric supplier) a flat monthly fee per light. If a light goes out I call and they replace them within 24 hours.