Possessed Meterbox

[Bubbles Galore]

I was at the wash tonight and was watching a guy wash his truck. To my utter dismay, his time ran out, but my equipment didn't shut off. Not only did the equipment not shut off, but he could switch between different functions. Any advice? Where to start looking? I am going to go back up there in the morning and try switching out the meterbox with a spare to see if the fixes it.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[Fatboy769]

Bubbles, if your customer was able to switch between functions after the time ran out, your timer is still sending 24v hot to your rotary switch or touchpad.

 

[Randy]

This is a silly question. What kind of timer is it?

 

[Fatboy769]

This is a silly question. What kind of timer is it?

From reading a post in another thread "bonus time/courtesytime", I believe he has the Ultimate timer from Dixmor.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Yes, that is the timer I have.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Give a guy a break, I made that post under the influence of Grey Goose

Anyway, I think the motor contactor might be sticking. Is there any way to check that? I went up there this morning and I couldn't get it to repeat the problem. I don't want to go and buy a new one if that isn't it.

 

[MEP001]

Either the contactor is hanging or the timer is going bad with the output staying closed. You'll have to wait for it to happen again or try to re-create it, then see if it's only the motor still running or all the functions still getting power. The former would be the contactor, the latter is the timer.

 

[Jeff_L]

I had something close to what you've experienced. However, the difference was just that my pump stayed running but all the appropriate valves would close. Therefore I replaced the motor starter and overload. No problem since!

Probably different than what you're seeing since he was able to switch between functions and still get water. I'd start looking at the rotary switch and timer.

 

[MEP001]

Jeff L, most washes don't use solenoids to control direct water supply to the pumps. They will use one for cold water, but the hot is generally supplied through a check valve and no solenoid.

 

[Jeff_L]

That's interesting. Guess I'm not in the "most washes" category. My hot and cold both have solenoids on them before they enter into the same pipe to the pump. Guess there are different ways to accomplish the same thing!

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Mine don't have solenoids, so I guess that makes sense. I haven't been able to repeat the issue, so I will just have to keep an eagle eye on the thing to see what happens. Last thing I want to do is burn up a motor.

What would a Furnas contactor run me on average? Any ideas?

 

[MEP001]

You can get a contactor/thermal overload from Kleen-Rite for around $60 for both parts.

 

[Randy]

I just bought a couple of Furnas contactors from Kleen-rite. The 2 pole 24 volt contactor was $16.25 and 3 pole was $26.50. We don?t have a Thermal overload on our equipment

 

[MEP001]

We don’t have a Thermal overload on our equipment

You should. It's cheap protection for your motors and for your customers. I always wire them to kill all the 24V to the bay so if something odd happens (Like a lost high-leg on the three phase where the bay still has power) the motor will trip it after only a second or so. The motor is protected from damage and only one customer loses money. I've had exactly this happen.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Ok guys, I got the problem to repeat tonight. I was wrong with my initial assumption about it being just hi-pressure functions, its all functions. I checked my ultimate timer and its fine. In my controller there is a GS 27 timer. Could that have gone bad? Is there a way to check besides swapping?

It got too late and I was doing some ignorant things, so I will try and tackle it tomorrow. Hopefully with some good advice

 

[cantbreak80]

Your equipment may include a “timer protection relay”. Instead of the timer directly powering the bay selector switch, the relay’s coil is energized by the timed output of the bay timer. When energized, the relay’s contacts apply 24VAC from the transformer to the meter box selector switch’s common position (11 & 12 on an eight position switch). The purpose of the relay is to prevent a shortcircuited solenoid valve coil from zapping the timer’s triac…or supplying full voltage to the switch directly from a low amp transformer...or to reduce line losses through light gauge wiring.

If the relay’s contacts stick closed, the selector switch will stay energized. Before replacing the relay, swap it with another bay’s relay to see if the problem follows the suspect relay.

 

[Fatboy769]

Ok guys, I got the problem to repeat tonight. I was wrong with my initial assumption about it being just hi-pressure functions, its all functions. I checked my ultimate timer and its fine. In my controller there is a GS 27 timer. Could that have gone bad? Is there a way to check besides swapping?

It got too late and I was doing some ignorant things, so I will try and tackle it tomorrow. Hopefully with some good advice

Since it is all functions, you can rule out the motor contactor. When you say you checked out the ultimate timer and it's fine, how did you check it? I'm confused as to why you would have another timer (GS 27) if your using the DX2000 or DX2002 timer.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

This is such a noob question. Is that a relay that has an adjustable knob?

I don't think it makes a difference, but I have push button meter boxes, not rotary knob.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I swapped the board I had in the timer with a spare I had on hand. Same problem.

I have no idea as to why there is a GS-27 timer in my controller. As far as I can tell, it is still hooked up and operating.

I'm stumped. I will take a mechanical problem any day

 

[car washing systems inc]

GS-27 Is used to energize the trickle sol to turn off the weep when a low pressure function is used, also can be used with low water cut off to cut power to bay when it is actavited. Sounds like you have a 24v hot wire shorting out to the timmed hot some where in the system.