Potential unloaded issue?

[Joswhaha]

Howdy y’all,
If it’s not one thing it’s another. On one of my SS bays. My pump is working but pressure won’t show on the gauge( I replaced the gauge). I am unable to adjust the pressure with the medium pressure regulator and it just doesn’t “feel” right. Can anyone lead me in the right direction for an issue like this.

 

[MEP001]

There are two regulators, one adjusts the high pressure and one adjust the spot-free pressure. Are you getting pressure in the bay? If you're getting some but it's so weak it's not showing on the gauge, the quickest way to tell if the regulator (or which one) is bad is to squeeze off the bypass hose coming off of it with some long pliers and feel/listen for flow.

 

[Joswhaha]

There are two regulators, one adjusts the high pressure and one adjust the spot-free pressure. Are you getting pressure in the bay? If you're getting some but it's so weak it's not showing on the gauge, the quickest way to tell if the regulator (or which one) is bad is to squeeze off the bypass hose coming off of it with some long pliers and feel/listen for flow.

So the pressure is good in the bay but I cannot adjust it using the small regulator. It is 1000 psi for even the medium pressure functions. I can adjust it with the Larger regulator only. Also, I did also notice this bay only uses the cold water and all the other bays use hot water for the chemical functions. Related?

 

[MEP001]

The "small regulator" only adjusts the presoak pressure. I misspoke above.

The cold water issue is most likely the rinse solenoid opening with all the high pressure functions. If this is a bay where you replaced pushbuttons with a rotary switch, you might have gotten something wired wrong.

 

[Joswhaha]

The "small regulator" only adjusts the presoak pressure. I misspoke above.

The cold water issue is most likely the rinse solenoid opening with all the high pressure functions. If this is a bay where you replaced pushbuttons with a rotary switch, you might have gotten something wired wrong.

10-4, this came up at the end of the day today so I am going to work on it more tomorrow. This solenoid is the same one that was stuck open when the line broke in my attic. And I just added a ball valve to it and closed it to repair what I needed and turned it back on. I didn’t change or try to rebuild the solenoid valve.

That makes since why I have all cold water. If the small regulator won’t change the pressure does that mean it’s bad or there is a different potential issue?

Bay the way, I’ve been using regulator and unloader as meaning the same thing for this conversation. Both of these are technically unloaders but it doesn’t really matter

 

[MEP001]

That makes since why I have all cold water. If the small regulator won’t change the pressure does that mean it’s bad or there is a different potential issue?

It's probably a different issue. The solenoids close to the floor on the manifold that includes the weep control the cold water to the pump for rinse. If you don't have a bay spewing water when it's off, the rinse solenoid is coming on when it shouldn't. Usually that will keep the pump from drawing chemicals too, but there's a regulator on that line which might be turned down so low it's still getting soap, or the ball valve has been throttled back. If you do have water spewing from the gun all the time, that solenoid is stuck open.

Bay the way, I’ve been using regulator and unloader as meaning the same thing for this conversation. Both of these are technically unloaders but it doesn’t really matter

Technically they are both balanced pressure regulators. Their function is simpler than an unloader, they just release excess flow back to the pump inlet. An unloader controls the pressure the same way, but there's a valve in its outlet and it's used with a shutoff gun. When all flow stops from the outlet, it unloads all the pressure off the pump. They're mainly used for gas powered pressure washers, but they're good anywhere you might have to leave the pump and motor running since it saves electricity and the pump doesn't get hot idling.

 

[Joswhaha]

Okay, I have an update on this: After some testing, it looks like when I am using the presoak pump, it works except I cannot adjust the pressure down and when the trigger is not being pulled I have water pulsating out of a pop off valve. I’m going to check the solenoid for the medium pressure at the pump. Are there other things I should be looking at?

 

[MEP001]

Those pop-odds always fail. I take them off.

Did you check that the solenoid is energizing? Do you know to hold a screwdriver just above the coil to feel that it is?

 

[MEP001]

Something else I thought of, can you post a picture of the pump and plumbing? IIRC there's a Paraplate regulator for the high pressure and a smaller brass regulator for the low pressure adjustment. If someone replaced the low pressure regulator with an Adams 7075 or 7085 it won't adjust very low without cutting the spring shorter. I also had one recently that was stuck completely closed, and the guy had tightened the belts so insanely tight that it blew the manifold off when I let go of the trigger.

 

[Joswhaha]

I may have figured some of this issue out. Perhaps someone replaced the solenoid with one that is normally open or there is a mechanical problem with the actual valve blocking the line when the solenoid is engaged. The smaller regulator will adjust the pressure for the high pressure functions only.

I’m thinking both of these regulators were set to allow 1000 psi for both high and medium pressure because the reversed solenoid and you can’t reduce the pressure to 300 with the large regulator then increase it to 1000 at the second regulator when the solenoid is open.

 

[MEP001]

A picture of the plumbing would really help.

Assuming it's a Dema solenoid as it would originally have had, it'll have a cylindrical bit on top of the coil if it's a normally open. A normally closed will have a flat coil top with just the screw on top holding it on.

 

[Joswhaha]

Check out my set up and let me know what you think. Thank you

 

[Greg Pack]

Coleman presoak setup- I hate it. Can't get the chemical strong enough to effectively clean without spening a lot of money. Its by far the least popular function on the dial because it's not useful for anything. If you have a low pressure bug remover option I'd convert it to presoak and get rid of the medium pressure setup.

I've got kinda confused reading your posts, so I'll just say this works for setup. Reduce the pressure on both regulators down to low pressure. Set the high pressure first. Increase pressure with trigger open to desired pressure-probably 1200-1400 at the gauge. If you can't get it that high it's possible the solenoid going to presoak is stuck open or you've got a leak or badly worn nozzle. . A lot of times you can tap on the presoak solenoid with a hammer and it will unstick. Once you have the high pressure adjusted activate the presoak function and the solenoid should open allowing the low pressure regulator to work. This is usually set to 300-400 psi or so. It is won't go down from high pressure the solenoid is stuck closed. Sometimes cycling it on and off will unstick, or often I use the old hammer trick.

Also if you have two waxes on the dial its possible one is supposed to be medium pressure.

 

[MEP001]

You're right, that's a normally open solenoid. It should be a 453P, 24V coil. https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-44...sure-valve-with-ptfe-seal-and-24vac-coil.aspx

Coleman presoak setup- I hate it. Can't get the chemical strong enough to effectively clean without spening a lot of money. Its by far the least popular function on the dial because it's not useful for anything. If you have a low pressure bug remover option I'd convert it to presoak and get rid of the medium pressure setup.

I agree completely. I deal with a wash that originally had the same setup, but they took out all the valves and regulators for the reduced pressure because the lines are all about 100 feet and the changeover time to presoak took over a minute, and it just wasted chemical because presoak at 300 PSI and strong enough to work uses a LOT of product.

Also if you have two waxes on the dial its possible one is supposed to be medium pressure.

Probably not, unless someone custom modified it. All the ones I've seen just have the two positions jumpered together, and to run a medium pressure and high pressure wax from the same tank it would have to have the wiring and a 3-stack rotary switch. There's no accommodation for that in the wiring.

 

[Joswhaha]

Alright, I replaced the valve with one that is normally closed. It appears to function correctly now. Butttt when the the trigger is not pulled on the gun water violently pulses from the pop off valve. This happens for every function through the pressure gun.

 

[MEP001]

If the pressure isn't coming way up when the trigger is released, the popoff is bad. I just remove them as they fail.

 

[Greg Pack]

All the ones I've seen just have the two positions jumpered together, and to run a medium pressure and high pressure wax from the same tank it would have to have the wiring and a 3-stack rotary switch. There's no accommodation for that in the wiring.

Doors with the keypad could do it. I've seen several sites with it. They would label one wax, the other clear coat protectant. The only difference between the two was one was medium pressure. I guess they were looking for a way to use a spot on the dial.

 

[MEP001]

Doors with the keypad could do it. I've seen several sites with it. They would label one wax, the other clear coat protectant. The only difference between the two was one was medium pressure. I guess they were looking for a way to use a spot on the dial.

Thanks, I forgot about the keypad doors.

 

[Joswhaha]

So, when water is shooting out from the pop off the pressure shooting way up. Only when the handle is not pressed. Any guidance on that? Thanks

 

[MEP001]

The Paraplate regulator is probably bad.