Presoak solenoids letting flojet pump all day

[Edie011]

Hey guys I'm having trouble with my presoak system. I just completely updated with a new flojet kalrez pump, new kip solenoids specifically rated for presoak, fresh plumbing. I had it running for a few months with no problems whatsoever @83psi to the flojet(rated up to 90psi) and the solenoids rated to 150psi. So no problems right??? Wrong 2 weeks ago it started pumping randomly past the solenoids and pumped 5gals of soap out overnight. So I thought something was wedged in solenoid causing it to stay open, I disassembled all solenoids and reassembled with no apparent problems and later that day it started doing it again. I thought maybe the flojet was too high at just over 80psi so I backed it to 60psi and stretched the springs on the solenoids a little to make them seat harder and that has worked for roughly 3 weeks....this morning when I stopped by on my way to work it had pumped all the soap out!!!! Somebody keep me from pulling my hair out!!

 

[Randy]

Is it pumping from one bay or all the bays? Have you checked to see if your getting any voltage to the solenoid valve coil? This is one of the prime examples of why you should use a solenoid valve on the air inlet side of the Flo-jet controlled by a IDX MX-8 or MX-9 multi-plexer.

 

[2Biz]

I had the same thing happen about a month ago. I had just replaced a worn out Dema with a Kip SS metering solenoid. A few days after changing the solenoid, I got to the wash and the same bay was pumping PS out on the floor. Luckily, it appeared it had only happened hours before and only used a gallon or so of PS. I disassembled the Solenoid just as you did and didn't find anything. Then remembered I had the meter on the solenoid set for 100% flow. All my others are throttled back to 50 oz per minute. So I set the metering screw to get 50 oz's a minute and no more problems.

I don't know if this will help your situation, but it fixed mine. And I don't really know the mechanics behind what I did to fix it. All I know, it hasn't done it since. Something was holding the needle in the solenoid open. I wished I would have checked for voltage at the coil but I didn't. Although, if there was, it would have reared its ugly head again!

Randy has a good suggestion and one that has been discussed here many times. An air shutoff solenoid to the flojet will keep this from happening. You can also do the same thing as the IDX multiplexer using relays. Just an FYI...

BTW, I run my flojets at 60 psi.

 

[whitescout]

You can buy viton plungers for the kip solenoids. They will resist swelling like the "stock" ones will. I would venture a guess that the plungers have swelled and are keeping them from closing off the flow. they can also swell, and keep them from opening. The "stock plengers are black, and the viton ones are red.

 

[MEP001]

I've had the red ones swell, but only on wax products. But when the plungers swell, it stops them from opening fully, it doesn't prevent them from seating.

 

[Edie011]

Took them back out and checked to find nothing, lowered flojet to 55psi. Just can't imagine that a solenoid specifically sold for pre soak chemicals up to 150psi barely works at 60psi. Guess we will see how it holds

 

[MEP001]

The pressure has nothing to do with the leaking, in fact it's the pressure that keeps the solenoid shut. The rated 150 PSI only refers to what pressure the solenoid can open.

If you can't find debris in the solenoid, it's bad and needs to be replaced.

 

[Jeff_L]

As whitescout says, check your plungers for their type. I use the red, victor ones for my solenoid a. They can swell over time, but last a lot longer than the black ones do. I agree that if/when they do swell, you usually see them not opening enough to allow much product by I suppose it could also impact how they seat.

Your symptoms don't found like an issue with pressure, as Mel says it's the pressure that keeps the plungers seated as well. Are you using a manifold block or are the valves individual? If using a block, there are two o-rings per solenoid between the body and block. One about the diameter of a quarter and the other about the diameter of a pencil eraser. Check to make sure they are seated in their grooves and not pinched.

 

[2Biz]

Are you using a manifold block or are the valves individual? If using a block, there are two o-rings per solenoid between the body and block. One about the diameter of a quarter and the other about the diameter of a pencil eraser. Check to make sure they are seated in their grooves and not pinched.

Also was the problem on all bays or just one bay?

 

[Edie011]

As whitescout says, check your plungers for their type. I use the red, victor ones for my solenoid a. They can swell over time, but last a lot longer than the black ones do. I agree that if/when they do swell, you usually see them not opening enough to allow much product by I suppose it could also impact how they seat.

Your symptoms don't found like an issue with pressure, as Mel says it's the pressure that keeps the plungers seated as well. Are you using a manifold block or are the valves individual? If using a block, there are two o-rings per solenoid between the body and block. One about the diameter of a quarter and the other about the diameter of a pencil eraser. Check to make sure they are seated in their grooves and not pinched.

They are individual, the description in the catolog SPECIFICALLY recommends these solenoids for pre soak chemicals, and they are only a month or so old to boot! Every time I check them I find nothing and they move freely. Could it be electrical? Even though I always check with my voltmeter and find nothing

 

[Edie011]

It's only 3 bays and I Havnt had it happen enough times to figure out exactly which one it was. That is my fault Im smart enough to know better and to check for a more specific problem.

 

[MEP001]

Are you actually seeing product leaking in a bay?

Exactly what solenoid are you using?

 

[Edie011]

Are you actually seeing product leaking in a bay?

Exactly what solenoid are you using?

Yes I'm seeing soap in bays. https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-1849-kip-solenoids-14-24-v-metering-side-orifice-18.aspx

 

[MEP001]

If it's only leaking some of the time, it could be an electrical issue. The quickest way to tell is when you see it running in a bay, pull the coil off. Make sure you unplug it right away if it's getting power or it will melt.

 

[sparkey]

I know this isn't the fix for your problem but I have all my air pumps set up with a solenoid on the chemical line and an additional solenoid on air going to the pump. That way if a solenoid doesn't close on the chemical line the pump still won't operate.

 

[Jeff_L]

Okay, obvious thing to check, but are you plumbed the right way? Meaning, is the input plumbed to the output and vice versa? Since it seems to happen randomly, I don't think this is the issue, but maybe the spring is just strong enough and air pump set just low enough to make it happen every now and then?

Also, I believe the only thing that would make a solenoid specifically for PreSoak would be the material on the plunger head, such as saportene or viton. All presoaks are the same, they're different.

 

[Edie011]

Okay, obvious thing to check, but are you plumbed the right way? Meaning, is the input plumbed to the output and vice versa? Since it seems to happen randomly, I don't think this is the issue, but maybe the spring is just strong enough and air pump set just low enough to make it happen every now and then?

Also, I believe the only thing that would make a solenoid specifically for PreSoak would be the material on the plunger head, such as saportene or viton. All presoaks are the same, they're different.

Yes they are all plumbed in the right direction, upon I selection of plunger heads they all seem good.