pump oil help

[Kevin Reilly]

QUOTE: No MEP1 I’m not being a smartarse. I asked this question because different ATF fluid has different additives and properties. Using Dexron in a transmission that calls for another type ATF will make the seals leak. I didn’t want to run the risk of ruining the seals in the Cat pump by using the wrong ATF. But since you don’t seem to really know we’ll stick to what we’ve been using and not try some secret sauce or do any lubrication experiments.

Kevin James I have 2 Jeeps and you are correct. They are automatics and require (I think ATF 3 or ATF 4 if that's the number but I don't have my manual with me. Anything else will screw it up).

However if you cross a deep stream and get water in that transmission you had better (and very quickly) drop the pan and drain ALL the fluid or you will have a ruined transmission......about $3,200. bucks.

So my question to MEP (and please don't call me a smart-ass!) regarding part transmission fluid in a pump then what affect would the transmission fluid do for the pump and what does it do for the moisture or water in the pump?

 

[MEP001]

So my question to MEP (and please don't call me a smart-ass!) regarding part transmission fluid in a pump then what affect would the transmission fluid do for the pump and what does it do for the moisture or water in the pump?

I explained it in an earlier post:

I think the way it works is like this: when the non-detergent oil gets wet and stirred up, it starts to coat everything with a pasty emulsion and the pump doesn't get lubricated. The transmission fluid absorbs the oil and stays liquid.

I know it works to clean the water-and-oil emulsion out of an engine - my last truck leaked at the intake manifold and was letting the coolant into the crankcase. There were 4 GALLONS of water and coolant in with the oil before I realized where it was going. After I changed the gasket, I changed the oil every day with the same mixture and after a week there was no sign on the dipstick or under the valve covers that there had ever been water in it. When I first looked, everything was covered with what looked like brown mayonnaise.

 

[Washmee]

Using transmission fluid will not harm the seals on a pump. Even using the wrong type of fluid in an automatic transmission will not harm the seals in the transmission either. The different types of transmission fluid use different Friction Modifiers which is why they can't be used in any transmission. If you use the wrong type, you will destroy the clutches from too much or too little friction.

 

[bighead]

Washmee is right. What separates most ATF's is their base oil and their content of friction modifiers. Type F has none, Dexron has more, and ATF +4 has more than that.

All ATF's have high detergent contents. Which is why a lot of old-timers would mix it in with regular out to help clean out their engine. Some guys with Diesel trucks mix it in with the diesel as a cheap injector cleaner. I've put rusty tools in a jar of ATF for a couple of days to help un-seize the tool.

I liked the thread on here that boiled the CAT oil down to a comparable turbine oil. I think that was most likely accurate, given the lack of combustion and the need to lubricate in the event of water being present. ATF does not do well with water.

But this thread probably comes down to how you do treat your own vehicle. The 3k changers will probably change their pumps once a year. The 7k changers will push it and see what they can get away with. I've only been in this car wash business for 7 years. I change mine once a year, and have never had any sort of problem, but maybe I wouldn't have if i never changed it???

 

[Washmee]

My Peco distributor bought an old Plymouth and the engine wouldn't turn over. The pistons were stuck. He took out the plugs and poured ATF into the cylinders. After sitting for a few months, he was able to get the motor unstuck. He put the plugs back in, checked the points and added new fuel. It fired right up.

 

[Kevin Reilly]

I explained it in an earlier post:

I know it works to clean the water-and-oil emulsion out of an engine - my last truck leaked at the intake manifold and was letting the coolant into the crankcase. There were 4 GALLONS of water and coolant in with the oil before I realized where it was going. After I changed the gasket, I changed the oil every day with the same mixture and after a week there was no sign on the dipstick or under the valve covers that there had ever been water in it. When I first looked, everything was covered with what looked like brown mayonnaise.

Thanks MEP for your thoughts on this. I'm certainly not a technician but I am good at troubleshooting. When we look at the back of a pump and the oil is milky white then the water is evidently mixed in with the Cat oil When there is no increase in the center-line of the site glass then I have always considered that condensation from the Machinery room. The interesting part of that is that the water never seems to settle out! Then of course when it starts filling up you better do something because if you don't the mixture will almost solidify to a grease.