Reasonable Cost of Soap/Wax per minute?

[2Biz]

The reason I ask, I switched to Warsaw Radiance 547 Wax. Dilution ration 90-120 to 1. All systems are different...I draw 10 oz's per minute of (Hydrominder) soap and wax into the HP pump. So the recommended ratios goes out the door. I've calculated the new wax ratio and it comes up to .046 cents per minute. Does this sound reasonable?

I was able to go from a beige tip to a red tip to get the same show as before with the Warsaw 503 lemon wax for a 50% savings. I like the lower ratio (10 oz per min) into the pump so my hydrominders don't have to cycle as often. Good or bad???

I know the ratios they publish on the containers are only guidelines, but I've never seen anything that takes hydrominder ratios AND whats drawn into the pump as a ratio and gives recomendations. So right now I'm at 17-1 hydrominder and 38-1 into the pump....

(3 gpm x 128oz=384oz / 10 oz per min= 38 to 1) So what is my final ratio? Or does it matter?

It can get confusing!

 

[2Biz]

Ok…So here’s how I came up with 4.6 cents per minute….


Hydrominder red tip 17-1 will make 85 gallons of diluted wax per 5 gallon bucket. 85gal x 128oz = 10,880oz of premix per 5 gallon bucket. At 10oz per minute of flow into the HP pump, you divide 10,880oz by 10 to get total minutes per 5 gallon bucket, which is 1088 minutes. Then you divide the cost of the product by how many minutes you can get from it for total cost…
(1) 5 gallon bucket is $50.00…

$50 divided by 1088= .0459 or 4.6 cents per minute.

Does this calculation make sense?

This is why I really like my Dwyers flow meters. They help me make sense (cents) of it all!

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Yes, makes sense to me... I agree that the ratios are important but I dont calc a "per minute" price - because I dont know what I would do with that info. I just calculate to $/gal of diluted soap (ie after the hydrominder) because that is a common factor among all soaps.

For quite a while I kept a spreadsheet to do all this, created it years ago (after I bought my wash) as a way to compare soap prices between brands. At the time I actually bought a 5 gal pail of a dozen or so different products and ran them at my wash until it was gone, that gave me time to get a subjective feel for cleaning, scent, show, and to settle in to the tip needed for that soap.
Yes it was a big help in choosing which soaps to use.

 

[Waxman]

never calculated soap cost per minute but have been saving with a mixture of kr's inbay turbo powder and simoniz foamer. awesome show and cleaning.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Does this calculation make sense?

No! What doesn't make sense is that you are wasting your time calculating something this piddly. Chemical use in a SS is chump change. Get the chemicals to where you like what you see in the bay and let it go. What are you going to do if you decide the soap is costing you a little more than you thought? Are you going to dial it back?

Surely Jeff, you can find a project to do that will make your wash better. Are you totally out of things to do there?

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Cheapest advertising you can do.
The customers LOVE all the soap.
Customers benefits with a clean car from all the soap.
And most of all it usually takes customers more time to rinse off all the soap which equals MORE money to you for them to clean the car.
Don't penny pinch.

 

[2Biz]

No! What doesn't make sense is that you are wasting your time calculating something this piddly. Are you totally out of things to do there?

Ouch! No I have plenty to do yet! Its just this is the first time I've changed chemicals or dilution ratios since buying the place. Never really gave it much thought when changing solenoids/plumbing. Just dial it back in the way it was and leave it alone. Now that I'm changing chemicals, I'm wanting to understand it more.

I started out with 75-1 on the hydrominder (recommended 90-1 to 120-1) and it was no where close. So the point I was trying to make is the recommended ratio is usually no where close to what you need. There are a lot of things that needs factored in when coming up with the right ratio...

As far as dialing it back? That's the reason for asking? Ratio's mean nothing. Price per minute does. I just figured some operators would take the time to learn what the costs are and what affects the bottom line. There has to be an average and I'm surprised its not discussed here. I guess that's the engineer in me. Your right, chemicals are chump change in the big scheme of things. If I liked pi$$ing $$$ down the drain though, I'd still have Metal Halides and fixed the two gigantic Jarco Hogs I had in the ER instead of replacing with High efficient ones....

I'm off my soap box now....

 

[Waxman]

Cheapest advertising you can do.
The customers LOVE all the soap.
Customers benefits with a clean car from all the soap.
And most of all it usually takes customers more time to rinse off all the soap which equals MORE money to you for them to clean the car.
Don't penny pinch.

this is exactly why i mix up the ss soap now; so i can better afford to crank up the show and cleaning power of everything! the soap i put out now looks like fresh cream going onto the paint and the foamy brush foam is copious to say the least.

it could use a better smell though...

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Waxman just make sure the powder stays in a soluble solution otherwise it will eventually clog your lines.
Make sure you have a barrel mixer such as http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-2381-electric-barrel-mixer.aspx to keep it agitated.

 

[mjwalsh]

I've calculated the new wax ratio and it comes up to .046 cents per minute.

(3 gpm x 128oz=384oz / 10 oz per min= 38 to 1) So what is my final ratio? Or does it matter?

It can get confusing!

2Biz & PaulLovesJamie,

I think what both of you are doing in terms of setting up a spreadsheet & then keeping it current is of value. I think one of the columns could include the potential perceived appearance effect (suds, scent, color &/or whatever). A separate graph could be generated also to reflect the slight nuances. At that point the thought process or some of us would be in a better position to see if the appearance effect is worth the other considerations. What appears to be minutia to some actually could affect our bottom lines at the end of the year when it comes to net income &/or affording more payroll or whatever else.

Right now, we are struggling in house with possibly switching from Warsaw Vanilla 530VK & a KR wax product so a more complete analysis like 2Biz proposes that we could collaborate on between ourselves within the Forum most certainly could be worthwhile. For just one of us trying to test all the chemicals in more than one way (more complete) ... is not as beneficial as several us making the effort & then sharing.

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[2Biz]

I'm glad some are finding this useful!

I guess I'm in the minority here. I still have Dwyer Flow meters on every liquid function on the stand. So getting this information is easier. That's why (I believe) Paul only calculated down to the gallons of diluted chemical he can make out of a 5 gallon pail, otherwise he'd know cost per minute. If you don't know how much your drawing into the HP line (when it comes to soap and wax), then you really don't know how much your using.

So far...Switching from Warsaw 503 with an advertised 75-1 ratio to Warsaw Radiance 547 Wax with a higher advertised ratio, I'm able to drop orifice size by more than 50% to get a better show and better smell. The 547 is about $12 higher than the 503. That equates to me to be close to a 40% savings just on wax alone. Soap should be the same since the ratios are similar. But I have to use up old stock before trying the Radiance 551. It has black cherry scent. The Warsaw 509 I currently use has no scent at all...There's only $3.00 difference in the 551 and the 509...That one is a no brainer...Can't wait to run out of 509...

 

[WikiWash]

I guess that's the engineer in me.

2Biz,

I'm currently switching over to a different powder presoak because my cost per yield was as high as the top liquid soap. The recommended dilution ratios are never accurate at least for my wash they have never been close. There is a huge difference between theoretical dilutions and actual titrated dilutions. Then I can calculate my actual cost per yield. I come from an engineering background too. I definitely know where you are coming from and how we look at things differently.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Ehhhh, knowledge is overrated sometimes

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

...
If you don't know how much your drawing into the HP line (when it comes to soap and wax), then you really don't know how much your using.
...

You're right, I don't know $/min, I don't know exactly how much I'm using. But that's where the analyst in me gets stuck - I used $/gal to reduce my soap costs by 50% (while improving cleaning ability and show), but exactly what would I use $/min for? Yeah, to know how much I'm using, I get that, but what would I do with that info? I'm a small rural SS only wash, so capacity*throughput*profit calcs are not an issue...

 

[2Biz]

I'll thank you too, Pat, even though you're giving me a hard time!

Titrated Dilutions!!!!! Oh boy, here we go again! My head hurts!

 

[2Biz]

You're right, I don't know $/min, I don't know exactly how much I'm using. But that's where the analyst in me gets stuck - I used $/gal to reduce my soap costs by 50% (while improving cleaning ability and show), but exactly what would I use $/min for? Yeah, to know how much I'm using, I get that, but what would I do with that info? I'm a small rural SS only wash, so capacity*throughput*profit calcs are not an issue...

Ummmm...To compare what others' costs per minute are to see if your in the ballpark on dilution ratios.... There's no way dilution ratios are something you can compare one wash with another unless they are plumbed "Exactly" alike, tipped the same, and are using the same ratio into the pump? But then there is water hardness to factor in!

I see every bodies point here. But if I got input as to what the average is, From the good operators, I'd know that I'm close to being right.

I've got customers that tell me we have the best CW in a 40 mile radius and have a few that live that far away and tell me they always use our wash when in town. So I know I'm on the right track.....Our wash is over 50 years old!

Oh Hell, I'm just trying to start some useful discussion other than "How Much Is This CW WORTH"....

 

[MEP001]

I never really thought about figuring out the cost per minute of the functions, but knowing if a particular feature isn't cost-effective seems like a good thing. That would promote shopping for better deals or trying different brands that can do the job at a lower cost. FWIW, I've been doing this long enough that I can "rule of thumb" estimate if something is out of line, for example the high-pressure wax is one of the lowest-used functions, but the $60 pail lasts over a month so I can't see much point looking at it any deeper.

 

[cantbreak80]

Hey Jeff,
I've got this IDEC program...











...(just kidding!)

 

[2Biz]

Hey Jeff,
I've got this IDEC program...


...(just kidding!)

Yea I know, Your program keeps track of "On Time"! And you could probably take the cost out 10 places, right! .0463587433

 

[2Biz]

FWIW, I've been doing this long enough that I can "rule of thumb" estimate if something is out of line, for example the high-pressure wax is one of the lowest-used functions, but the $60 pail lasts over a month so I can't see much point looking at it any deeper.

So if you could switch to a wax that smelled better, the show was better or the same, and was roughly half the cost, you wouldn't persue it? Thats over $300 a year in savings.....