Replacing Metal Halide bay lights with LEDs

[HCCW]

I'm considering changing out my current wall pack lights from 250W metal halide to 50W LEDs. Has anyone out there converted their car washes to LED's? The salesman that is trying to sell me on doing this has worked up some numbers and it shows I should save about $2,000 a year per car wash in electricity. The cost per wash to change these fixtures out is $4,400. So in a couple years they should pay for themselves and start saving us money. That's IF I'm to believe what a salesman is telling me and they neeeeever exagerate.
So if you have changed out your lights at your car wash to LED's, please please please let me know if you saw savings and how much they were. I'd hate to do this and find out it wasn't worth it....
Thanks! Jeanine

 

[MEP001]

Keep in mind that a 50W LED will be only about 20% as bright as a properly-functioning 250 metal halide, so if you're expecting the wash to be as well-lit as before it simply won't be. The efficacy (lumens per watt) of LEDs are the same as metal halides, therefore they're not more efficient, they're just lower wattage.

The convenience store next to our place just replaced their canopy lights with LEDs, and they're very bight, but they probably spent over $15,000 on them plus installation. 30 fixtures, probably 100W each. If money were no object I might do the same thing. If you factor in that the fixtures will need to be replaced after 50,000 hours (12-15 years of average use), that really digs into your electric bill savings.

I've been replacing 250W Scottsdale metal halides with 128W fluorescents - they light the bays just as well for half the wattage, and projected maintentance over 100,000 operating hours is about $45.

http://lightingfixtures.lamarlighti...?&plpver=1001&origin=keyword&by=prod&filter=0

 

[Earl Weiss]

Need more 411.

What is your electrical cost per KWH?

Are you getting any subsidies from the government or utilities for the purchase?

Do you burn them 24 x365? Only during darkness? Some other factor?

A simplified equation would be savig 200W per hour at a cost of 10 cents per KWH saves 2 cents per hour. If you burn them 24/ 365 You save $175 / Year per fixture. Adjust up / down for rate and hours. Before I would do them all I would do a few and see if I like what I saw.

 

[mac]

As a test I replaced the 400 watt MH bulbs in my warehouse with compact fluorescent. The bulbs were less than $20 each, put out great light, and are instant on. Haven't done an exact comparison but my monthly bill is almost $100 less. Went right in to the existing fixtures. Just had to disconnect the ballast, and instead of 220 volt, I just moved one leg to neutral. My gut feeling is that LEDs are real nice, but will continue to drop in price as time goes on. Got them at 1000bulbs.com

 

[JMMUSTANG]

MEP001 how much is this fixture?
I bought this one fro KR and its working great.
http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-326...ent-light-120277v-wstainless-steel-clips.aspx

 

[MEP001]

Bubbles Galore said he paid something like $165 for them - I paid way too much from a local company, more like $230 each. It was so long ago when I got them, Kleen-Rite didn't have the 8' fixtures yet, but I like these for not having to move the ladder four times to take down the lens and replace the bulbs.

There's one 8' fixture like the Kleen-Rite one over the changer, and a big chunk of the lens broke off at one of the retainer clips the first time I took it down. The new ones are a lot more sturdy.

 

[Randy]

I bought this one fro KR and its working great.
http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-326...ent-light-120277v-wstainless-steel-clips.aspx

Does that 2 tube T-5 light fixture put enough light?

Shop around there are a lot manufactures/suppliers of the enclosed fluorescent fixtures.

http://www.warehouse-lighting.com/w...t-location-/linear-vapor-tight-lights-/8-foot

http://www.contractorlighting.com/high-bay-fluorescent-vaportight-c-32_300.html

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/2-lamp-t5-fluorescent-fixtures/

http://www.smartlightingsolutions.com/vapor-wet.html

 

[HCCW]

Oh! I didn't see these replies! I am not at my office right now so I'm not sure what the cost per KWH is, but I can tell you for sure that I will not be getting any subisdies. Apparently those are only for gas stations as they do give subsidies for lights that are mounted on the roof pointing down, but no subsidies for wall mounted fixtures. Boo.
I burn them only when it is dark, and this time of year that's a lot! Thanks for the equation! I will work that out when I'm back at the office.

 

[JustClean]

Hi all,
I am in the same boat here. I want to change over to LED. Everyone is saying here that LED lights are so expensive. I always buy stuff off Ebay and just had a quick look. The first 50 W LED floodlight that I saw was $62. Okay, you never know what you get from Ebay but what do you reckon? For this price difference you can change over quite a few lights...

 

[MEP001]

Is that 50W of real power consumption or 50W incandescent equivalent? There's a huge difference.

 

[JustClean]

Is that 50W of real power consumption or 50W incandescent equivalent? There's a huge difference.

Here is another 50W one $48 on Ebay ID 380826990366 with 4800 lumens.
Last week I took two 30W LED went on a ladder and lit up the bay. It was a bit darker than my 400 watt MH but if I had 4 of them it would have been better. I don't know how much lumens the MH are but 4 of the 30W would definitely do the trick. But no idea how long they last.

 

[Earl Weiss]

.
I burn them only when it is dark, and this time of year that's a lot! Thanks for the equation! I will work that out when I'm back at the office.

Using the sample in #3 the payback is $87.50 / year. Burning half the day doubles the amount of time needed for payback.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Here is another 50W one $48 on Ebay ID 380826990366 with 4800 lumens.
Last week I took two 30W LED went on a ladder and lit up the bay. It was a bit darker than my 400 watt MH but if I had 4 of them it would have been better. I don't know how much lumens the MH are but 4 of the 30W would definitely do the trick. But no idea how long they last.

In my Tunnel I had 400W MH and 320 W MH Scottsdales. The 400's were old and needed replacement so I tried 150W LED's from The Sign Shop. They are pricey at about $500.00. The LED's are brighter tham the 320 W or 400W. (Although Lumen specs might say I am wrong). From a savings standpoint, to recover $500 it would take about 6 years to pay back. Probably would have gone with 320 W MH so the extra cost was about $250 so it kind of made sense. Saves about 20 cents a day

 

[MEP001]

Here is another 50W one $48 on Ebay ID 380826990366 with 4800 lumens.
Last week I took two 30W LED went on a ladder and lit up the bay. It was a bit darker than my 400 watt MH but if I had 4 of them it would have been better. I don't know how much lumens the MH are but 4 of the 30W would definitely do the trick. But no idea how long they last.

Normal 400W metal halides are supposed to give out 40,000 lumens, so it really all comes down to how well you want the bays lit. If you were comparing apples to apples like Earl choosing between 400-watt pulse-start metal halides and high-output LED fixtures at $500 apiece, then you'd have a whole different thing going. Right now you're comparing apples to rotten oranges, because there's no way the lights you linked would normally be anywhere CLOSE to as bright as a properly-functioning 400W metal halide.

 

[JIMT]

Do LED's send all of their light in the direction that you want? Metal halides bulbs send the light in all directions unless you have a perfect reflector which they don't. I am interested in which will do the best job. There a gas station near me that put in LED's on the ceiling of the canopy and the brightness is stunning.

 

[Earl Weiss]

IMNSHO the lighting needs for an EE Tunnel Vs Gas Station, VS SS bay are diferent.

In the Tunnel similar to the Gas Station, one fixture in the center is OK because it Punches light directly down on the car the customer is sitting in. Being able to see the sides of the car well is not important. In the SS bay this is important as the customer washes that area and you would only get reflected light which may or may not work well down low on the sides as well as the front and back.

In order to hit those areas my SS bays use four, 4' HO flourescent fixtures mounted about 9' high, 2 on each side wall spaced about 6 feet apart and about 2 feet in from each end. This covers the sides, tops, front and rear. I think the fixture investment for LEDs to do this would be extremely high, although I have seen guys who did it with the linear type flourescent. It was beautiful, but ot cheap.